Cheating AI

[§The LÅ BåkeR§]

The AI cheats constantly and it is extremely obnoxious. It makes me want to stop playing the game.
From miraculously catching up on the very last lap from a 40 second deficit and taking the lead in the last second, to AI cars being able to shove far more than the vehicle is able to(e.g. a lawnmower pushing around vehicles 10X the mass), and performing maneuvers the AI vehicle cannot do in human control, this is insanely obnoxious and makes me not want to play the game.
Granted, I play on the hardest difficulty settings, but that is not carte blanche for the devs to make the AI vehicle cheat to win, let alone these blatant in your face MarioKart 64 type cheating mechanics.

Are there people out there who think this is fun?
Why do these mechanics exist in most racing games?

It is as though they want to punish you for playing well, which is so completely back a$$wards, words cannot express my discontent.

I am very close to never buying another racing game again due to these inane and r3t@rded mechanics being so prevalent in the genre.

Devs found a way to make an entire genre of game undesirable.

[Talon]

Here's the funny thing about this: Despite what the AI are capable of, they're still incredibly bad at racing. Because they full send into every turn, they'll often slam into walls or slide off the track and this can lead to their vehicles taking damage. Once vehicle systems get damaged and compromised, and once tires get damaged, they end up becoming nothing more than a semi-mobile obstacle for you to avoid or laugh at.

So... they cheat but just like real cheaters they are actually worthless at the game they're in and once you manage to play around that then it's GG for them. This is true even with the Expert AI.

Just boot up something like Hellride, Dirt Devil Stadium, or even Rally Trophy. A large portion of the pack will be gone and dusted before the end of a race with the rest barely even able to keep on a straight line.

[start214]

I also have no problem winning from the A1 in the hardest difficulty.
(sometimes i need more than 3 laps, can be too short)
Only the Kingston Asphalt oval i do not manage to win the race still (at
least without giving cornerbombs) ;)

[oberheim]

You are not alone. I don't like this "cheating" AI too. It was one of the main reason I stop playing this game. It is not a fun. And on destruction derby arena it is even worse.

[Les Grossman]

Actually on Expert, AI has no catch-up mechanic and generally don't cheat. All AI has over player is better traction control.

People don't cheat online, go there and see what live players can do and how fast they are, then compare it to AI, you'll die laughing.

After couple of weeks online, I was able to beat Expert AI in A class while my car was C class, pretty much in any race. That's how bad they are.

[Talon]

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

Actually on Expert, AI has no catch-up mechanic and generally don't cheat. All AI has over player is better traction control.

People don't cheat online, go there and see what live players can do and how fast they are, then compare it to AI, you'll die laughing.

After couple of weeks online, I was able to beat Expert AI in A class while my car was C class, pretty much in any race. That's how bad they are.

By 'catch up mechanic' you mean 'rubberbanding'? As in, slowing down when the player falls behind and speeding up when the player pulls ahead?

So, with Expert, they don't do that at all in either direction?

[Les Grossman]

Originally posted by Talon:

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

Actually on Expert, AI has no catch-up mechanic and generally don't cheat. All AI has over player is better traction control.

People don't cheat online, go there and see what live players can do and how fast they are, then compare it to AI, you'll die laughing.

After couple of weeks online, I was able to beat Expert AI in A class while my car was C class, pretty much in any race. That's how bad they are.

By 'catch up mechanic' you mean 'rubberbanding'? As in, slowing down when the player falls behind and speeding up when the player pulls ahead?

So, with Expert, they don't do that at all in either direction?

Nope, they don't. There were many statements on this, and you can also check files with Bagedit. Did a little bit of modding a while back and can confirm. But AI will punish player if they make mistakes, crashing too much, corner slow and etc.

[oberheim]

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

Actually on Expert, AI has no catch-up mechanic and generally don't cheat. All AI has over player is better traction control.

I would say, it is not better traction control, there is no a traction control for them. Said otherwise, they don't have physics applied (except collision hits and deformations). Imagine a waypoints on track and cars are "floating" to those points and make illusion that they are on wheels. Except yours. By the way some track I can win on expert or easy and some are imposibble even on easy, because AI allways going faster on corners. On some corners are going even slower as the should. I think AI for this game never was finished. It is same as for Flatout 2, But in Flatout 2 it was somehow controlled that when AI leads, he was slower or never exceed speed as his car should.

[Oggmeista]

Other "PLAYERS" cheat constantly, in my selfish opinion AS i only ever use onboard cockpit perspective, and i know hardly anyone else does, it's fine when the car has zero or light damage, but it totally obscures the view when heavily damaged. Now i'm not crying because everyone should have the same detriment to make the racing equal, but i am po when i can't even enforce these restrictions in a server i create......
You see i'm all about simulation and immersive gaming experience, but if i do that i drastically lower my probability of being competitive, because so many others treat the game like a little children's arcade game.

And btw i've explained to other people i know who had some interes in the game of what i like and dislike (above) and since, NON of them now have any interest in the game...p

[Les Grossman]

Originally posted by oberheim:

I would say, it is not better traction control, there is no a traction control for them. Said otherwise, they don't have physics applied (except collision hits and deformations). Imagine a waypoints on track and cars are "floating" to those points and make illusion that they are on wheels. Except yours. By the way some track I can win on expert or easy and some are imposibble even on easy, because AI allways going faster on corners. On some corners are going even slower as the should. I think AI for this game never was finished. It is same as for Flatout 2, But in Flatout 2 it was somehow controlled that when AI leads, he was slower or never exceed speed as his car should.

They have physics applied, they can crash and spin out, even on Expert. Player who knows lines, use manual with clutch and has great throttle control can corner FAR better than AI possibly can. That's where you see their traction is just better than the average player, but still not ideal.

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

Other "PLAYERS" cheat constantly, in my selfish opinion AS i only ever use onboard cockpit perspective, and i know hardly anyone else does, it's fine when the car has zero or light damage, but it totally obscures the view when heavily damaged. Now i'm not crying because everyone should have the same detriment to make the racing equal, but i am po when i can't even enforce these restrictions in a server i create......
You see i'm all about simulation and immersive gaming experience, but if i do that i drastically lower my probability of being competitive, because so many others treat the game like a little children's arcade game.

And btw i've explained to other people i know who had some interes in the game of what i like and dislike (above) and since, NON of them now have any interest in the game...p

Fact is, cockpit cam gives certain advantages, that you cannot have with any other cam, and can make you far more competitive in racing than any other player. I don't have a problem finishing top 5 consistently in clean racing servers, and I use cockpit cam exclusively. If your front gets too banged up all the time, you either play on no-rules servers, where main winning factor is luck, or you don't have car control and crash too much on racing servers, which doesn't let you finish on podium, and it has nothing to do with camera you choose to play with.

On simulation, WF has none of it even close. It has fun arcade driving physics, like it or not.

[phamaton]

i smell skill issue

[Oggmeista]

Originally posted by phamaton:

i smell skill issue

Well if i could of created my own server with my own restrictions and settings, you'd of been able to find out wouldn't you,? but unfortunately that's not going to happen.

quote "fact is cockpit can give certain advantages" Oh yeah like what?, that's why so many here complain so bitterly about suggesting such a limitatiom, because it would be too easy for them? yeah right save it for the idiot who has no clue ok?, Cameras do not give you advantages to the contrary with the visual effect of simulated damage modelling this game incorporates, it's the exact opposite, onboard cam makes driving and being competitive much more difficult with damage build up, and that's blatantly obvious and who said anything about "clean" servers?, the game is called "Wreckfest" i don't expect clean driving with a game which has such a title, now that really would of been naive.

Btw one last point so players can create servers where everyone entering is expected to drive clean and fair, but yet i can't create one which enforces a visual perspective for the sole reason of evening the playing fled?, and the ridiculous ironic joke, in a game where bad driving is the objective, where's the logic here?

@OP btw most of your points aimed towards the AI i can make about this game compared to other games relating to my point, and my view doesn't even get totally obstructed from damage in these other sim titles like it does in this but i can still restrict perspective as a host. . of course there's no need with these other titles because there is no disadvantage to using onboard camera as there reguarly is in this, go figure

[phamaton]

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

Originally posted by phamaton:

i smell skill issue

Well if i could of created my own server with my own restrictions and settings, you'd of been able to find out wouldn't you,? but unfortunately that's not going to happen.

quote "fact is cockpit can give certain advantages" Oh yeah like what?, that's why so many here complain so bitterly about suggesting such a limitatiom, because it would be too easy for them? yeah right save it for the idiot who has no clue ok?, Cameras do not give you advantages to the contrary with the visual effect of simulated damage modelling this game incorporates, it's the exact opposite, onboard cam makes driving and being competitive much more difficult with damage build up, and that's blatantly obvious and who said anything about "clean" servers?, the game is called "Wreckfest" i don't expect clean driving with a game which has such a title, now that really would of been naive.

Btw one last point so players can create servers where everyone entering is expected to drive clean and fair, but yet i can't create one which enforces a visual perspective for the sole reason of evening the playing fled?, and the ridiculous ironic joke, in a game where bad driving is the objective, where's the logic here?

@OP btw most of your points aimed towards the AI i can make about this game compared to other games relating to my point, and my view doesn't even get totally obstructed from damage in these other sim titles like it does in this but i can still restrict perspective as a host. . of course there's no need with these other titles because there is no disadvantage to using onboard camera as there reguarly is in this, go figure

Upload a video from the replay of the race with spectacting suspected AI and show us

[Pvt Tommy]

I recommend playing on extreme vehicle damage to let them destroy themselves for demolition game modes. You don't need to get 1st place in every race but just close enough to get some points to progress into the next championship or whatever.

[oberheim]

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

They have physics applied, they can crash and spin out, even on Expert.

As I wrote "except collision hits and deformations". I said it differently but if we speak about driving physics there is literally none for them.

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

Player who knows lines, use manual with clutch and has great throttle control can corner FAR better than AI possibly can. That's where you see their traction is just better than the average player, but still not ideal.

I can do that even on keyboard with automatic clutch on expert mode. AI have predefined behavour on each track and on some cornes is going slow, even with keyboard you will be better then AI. Wreckfest isn't a simulator and I expect to drive car even with keyboard and have a fun on easy mode if hard or expert is difficult. If only my car have driving phisics and opnents have none, it is not fun. And problem is not only driving a race but also in derby mode.

Originally posted by phamaton:

i smell skill issue

I see you don't get a point what is talking about. I played tournament on expert mode and most of tracks I finished on first place, except few with special cars like sofa. Until I found this stupid AI mechanics I start playing game on different difficultie levels to speed up finish whole tournament. ( I am writing about ingame offline tournament).

Originally posted by Swattii:

I recommend playing on extreme vehicle damage to let them destroy themselves for demolition game modes. You don't need to get 1st place in every race but just close enough to get some points to progress into the next championship or whatever.

Arguing about expert mode and make them destroying themselves is workaround to acomplish some task but not a have a fun. If you see the fun in it, ok I not.

[Pvt Tommy]

Originally posted by oberheim:

Originally posted by Swattii:

I recommend playing on extreme vehicle damage to let them destroy themselves for demolition game modes. You don't need to get 1st place in every race but just close enough to get some points to progress into the next championship or whatever.

Arguing about expert mode and make them destroying themselves is workaround to acomplish some task but not a have a fun. If you see the fun in it, ok I not.

I think it is fun because it's how I do in real life, lol. If I feel that an accident is bound to happen, I will try to stay as far away from it as possible and just watch the chaos ensue.