Manual or Manual with Clutch?

[Les Grossman]

I'm very used to manual, but can't clutch if my life depended on it. I play Wreckfest mostly on gamepad and have no problem gear switching, but more and more I see people, who are really fast, say they use clutch.

I do have some sim background, but I mostly enjoy modern car racing, and use paddles for gearshift on the wheel. Wreckfest is too tiring on wheel, and really not necessary, gamepad feels very comfortable, though.

Now, I don't exactly understand advantages of clutch, and would like for players to clear it up, maybe with videos showing real difference?

I mean, on manual, I don't notice any delay on switching at all, you can shift like machine gun, no problems here. In sims, some cars have shifting limiters, so you can't switch instantly or at certain rev, at least downshift like that, since it can damage your box or engine. There don't seem to be any limiters in Wreckfest, so how clutch makes you faster exactly? Why manual is inferior without clutch?

[IcyDust001]

It turns out this game indeed has a delay with automatic or manual gear shifts compared to manual + clutch. On top of that, it does also matter, if you bind your clutch to a digital or analog button. Thus, manual + clutch with clutch bound to an analog button (e.g. right stick up) results in the fastest gear shifts. Yoshey66 has made a few nice comparison videos on youtube. I would start with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Ejzw1It0A. See especially from 2:10 onwards. A more detailed comparison is made in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfW-422hg7s. And additionally, it is not necessary to lift throttle while shifting. Also, clutch for downshifts is not 100% necessary, but makes the shifts more reliable (I had random double downshifts when not using clutch).

[Saber]

The faster shifts with clutch are very apparent at race starts, you can gain several car lengths and positions even when running in a class lower than your opponents. I've tried the analog clutch method and it certainly is the best for shifting speed, but for me the binding layout was too uncomfortable and awkward.

[B Dawg]

Clutch will give you at least a second advantage per lap on longer tracks in comparison to manual. 6 speed cars are kinda ♥♥♥♥ without it (especially at race starts).

[Les Grossman]

Thanks for input, guys, and for the videos. I have seen second one, but not the first. It was pretty helpful in general. And after running it back a few times I did notice there's a delay. It's very unnoticeable, but since clutch completely eliminates it, I can see the advantage now.

However, say, what is the stance of Bugbear regarding this? Is it intentional? Do they consider it a bug? Are they aware or ever commented on it? May this delay be fixed eventually?

Personally I have mixed feelings about it, since it's cool that clutch gives an advantage, because it adds layer of complexity at gear shifting and new control scheme you have to adapt to. But on the other hand, game isn't a simulator, and maintains rather simple arcade handling model, with pretty unrealistic car physics... I mean, scrapyard bangers can't usually push over 200 kph easily, and maintain such a good stability and grip, on any surface,

Curious, what do people think about clutch giving such an advantage?

[B Dawg]

Pretty sure it's intentional (except for the part where people bind it to the right stick maybe).

[Calumniate]

if you have a cheap pair of pedals (like me, g25), you can do the following:
gas and clutch to the pedals, brake and e-brake to an xbox gamepad :)
makes things fun while not being overkill with an entire wheel setup

[Les Grossman]

Originally posted by Calumniate:

if you have a cheap pair of pedals (like me, g25), you can do the following:
gas and clutch to the pedals, brake and e-brake to an xbox gamepad :)
makes things fun while not being overkill with an entire wheel setup

That's some abomination of controllers, if I have ever seen one, haha!

Although, say, if you use wheel setup for clutch, does binding it to regular sequential shifter or paddles makes it work in the same way as analog on gamepad?

[IcyDust001]

I don't think it's considered a bug. There have been changes to clutch behaviour before. You used to have an even larger advantage at race starts, when 1st gear wasn't yet forced at start. The analog clutch thing actually came up a while ago, when they nerfed button clutch (added delay). Some say it was because they want to prevent people using macros, where clutch is used automatically when gearing.

In the first video, from 2:10-5:30, is probably the best part where the delays between auto, manual and manual + clutch are discussed.

[IcyDust001]

Here are a few mentions from release notes:

Update on 13.2.2020: "Added release delay to digital clutch to prevent shifting exploit (previously you could shift instantly, giving unfair advantage)."

Hotfix on 14.2.2020: "Improved digital clutch release."

Update on 27.2.2020: "First gear is now engaged during the race countdown, eliminating the unnecessary gear change when using automatic transmission and making the launch equal between full automatic, manual and manual with clutch shifting modes."; "When using shifting modes with automatic clutch, all cars now use the faster shifter profiles in order to make cars more equal."

[Calumniate]

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

Originally posted by Calumniate:

if you have a cheap pair of pedals (like me, g25), you can do the following:
gas and clutch to the pedals, brake and e-brake to an xbox gamepad :)
makes things fun while not being overkill with an entire wheel setup

That's some abomination of controllers, if I have ever seen one, haha!

Although, say, if you use wheel setup for clutch, does binding it to regular sequential shifter or paddles makes it work in the same way as analog on gamepad?

You used analog shifting before? Hehe.. now that's an abomination! I'd assume mapping it to any button including paddles would be potato potatoe

[Headbanger]

I use a sequential shifter for gear changes, and have the clutch mapped to the paddle on my wheel. The paddle itself just acts as a button.

[Les Grossman]

Need more help and advice from you, folks.

So, I reconfigured my control scheme on pad and bound clutch to the stick. But how am I supposed to go about this? Because, strange thing is, if I choose Manual With Clutch in Difficulty menu, when I race, it feels like Clutch is constantly pressed. However, if I choose just Manual in that menu, Clutch seems to work as it should. I just pull the stick, I can see that Clutch is engaged and shift up lightning fast without any seeming delay. Is that how it supposed to work?

Either though new control scheme is a total mess and will take me weeks to rewire my brain to it, I tried an Oval race. It doesn't take tremendous intellectual effort to roll with clutch there, so I reliably shaved off 5 secs of my best time with it. Saying Clutch advantage is unfair, is putting it rather mildly, so I'll absolutely have to readjust to be able to compete online.

Also, how crucial is to downshift with Clutch? In what situations it is most preferable to do so? Because I slowly getting hang of upshifting with clutch, but when I downshift, I usually either tap brake/handbrake to initiate slide, and somehow can't force my brain to use clutch on downshift no matter what... How much speed/time am I gonna lose like this?

And a bit unrelated question, but still pretty important:
It seems like most people I asked, plus in some videos people run 1 or 2 brake bias to the rear. Is it universally good on each and every car or there are some situation/cars which benefit from front brake bias?

[John Webfishing]

clutch better

[Bhante]

Mr. Grossman, I would just like to add too, that dog boxes are often used in stock cars, which are manual H-Pattern (typically) gear boxes that do not require a clutch. So, if you really wanted to use manual gears WITHOUT clutch, you can do so guilt free and tell yourself you have installed a dog box.

So you have three options:

Standard H-pattern box, with clutch.
Standard H-pattern dog box, without clutch
Sequential, without clutch

^^ I love all of the above, although Standard box with clutch just feels faster, and is very satisfying when you're nailing your shifts at the right time and powersliding all around the place like a maniac.

and well, of course you could use flappy paddles for sequential, but imagine bringing a car to a derby race with flappy paddles. That's a lot of money to lose for a day of carnage.

[Calumniate]

Originally posted by Les Grossman:

Need more help and advice from you, folks.

So, I reconfigured my control scheme on pad and bound clutch to the stick. But how am I supposed to go about this? Because, strange thing is, if I choose Manual With Clutch in Difficulty menu, when I race, it feels like Clutch is constantly pressed. However, if I choose just Manual in that menu, Clutch seems to work as it should. I just pull the stick, I can see that Clutch is engaged and shift up lightning fast without any seeming delay. Is that how it supposed to work?

Either though new control scheme is a total mess and will take me weeks to rewire my brain to it, I tried an Oval race. It doesn't take tremendous intellectual effort to roll with clutch there, so I reliably shaved off 5 secs of my best time with it. Saying Clutch advantage is unfair, is putting it rather mildly, so I'll absolutely have to readjust to be able to compete online.

Also, how crucial is to downshift with Clutch? In what situations it is most preferable to do so? Because I slowly getting hang of upshifting with clutch, but when I downshift, I usually either tap brake/handbrake to initiate slide, and somehow can't force my brain to use clutch on downshift no matter what... How much speed/time am I gonna lose like this?

And a bit unrelated question, but still pretty important:
It seems like most people I asked, plus in some videos people run 1 or 2 brake bias to the rear. Is it universally good on each and every car or there are some situation/cars which benefit from front brake bias?

That's interesting it's not behaving properly with h-pattern w / clutch. No idea.. maybe you need to reverse the mappping?

Wreckfest works awesome with multiple inputs, so I'd just buy the cheapest pair of pedals you can find and then use them for clutch and gas, and then brake and e-brake on the triggers.

I don't pay attention downshifting all that much as corners can happen quickly in the game. Sometimes, just clutch in and brake to get the slide going.. get into the gear you need to power out? Rear brake bias is desired on most cars i'd say, except for the small cars / fwd cars... i find messing with their setups make them fairly unpredictable, but I hardly use them.

Clutch 'slipping' can be great in this game when you're not in the best gear for full power, and still want some wheel spin to freak out your opponents / induce oversteer turning in tight situations