The Greater Wolfwere is bad game design

[Flyboy Connor]

On the werewolf island you HAVE to defeat the leader of the wolfweres, who is a Greater Wolfwere. This Greater Wolfwere is immune to all weapons but three, two of which are found on the island. Not that the game tells you this. Moreover, the best of those two weapons is actually found in the room where the Greater Wolfwere is, behind him. So, you have to expect to run into this room armed with just a dagger as the only weapon that can damage him. And yes, I know that magic missiles and poison harm him too. So, in the end, I kited him outside, hasted my whole party, and started attacking him: two of mages pelting him with magic missiles, one of my fighters hitting him with balduran's sword and one with the dagger, a third mage paralyzing him and casting all kinds of spells that should reduce his resistances, and my cleric running around healing. But he regenerates health so fast that THIS WAS NOT ENOUGH. A paralyzed Greater Wolfwere, not able to fight back, getting hit with every available weapon that does damage, and still he regenerates health faster than damage is done -- he never got below 80% of his health bar.

And this is NORMAL mode.

I have read in posts dating from 2012/2013 that his health regerating becomes wacky if you reload a game when you are in Balduran's ship. Every time you reload, his regeneration factor is added once more. Seeing what happened in my game, it looks like that bug is present and it hasn't been fixed for FIVE years! This is a game-breaking bug.

In the end I cheated my way through by using EEKeeper to give each of my fighters a copy of Balduran's sword. It went reasonably smoothly after that (I dumped the extra swords after killing him). But I am very annoyed that I was basically forced to cheat my way through.

Now, you might come up with tactics that might work. "Make all your characters drink a potion of insulation and cast lightning bolts in the room where he is." Yeah, that might work -- if you have brought potions of insulation and have brought a wand of lightning. The point is that this is a mandatory fight that is impossible without cheezing and without foreknowledge. On NORMAL mode. If it was like this on the highest difficulty setting, sure, I have no problems with that. But on normal mode:

The Greater Wolfwere is either a game-breaking bug, or an example of very bad game design.

Considering that I never had these kinds of problems when I played the game originally, I believe it is a bug (which, after 5 years, amounts also to bad design).

BTW, the bug where Dispel Magic does not work to remove the Dying status brought on by the tanar'ri about 90% of the time is also still present (regardless whether you use the Mage spell, the Priest spell, or Arrows of Dispelling). In this case the bug is not game-breaking as you can, if you get it, just ignore the tanar'ri and leave it to ravage the Sword Coast, but that is not very satisfying, is it? (EDIT: I later found that this is not a bug but a feature of the D&D system, but it looks like in the original BG Dispel Magic still always worked, perhaps by design -- "fixing" it was not a good idea.)

[fauxpas]

Part of the issue is the the EEs use BG(2) weapon prof system instead of BG(1) original one, and the non prof penalty hurts.

[red255]

Don't belladona give you some boost vs werewolves or something? I noticed the GWW were hard to kill but beyond that not so much.

[Flyboy Connor]

No, the Belladonna protects you against lycanthropy, if you do not treat the historian badly. It is purely optional, if you do not take too long on the island you don't need it at all (and even if you would need it, it is not much of a solution as it would just protect you from turning into a werewolf, your party members would still turn). And to be clear, there is only one GWW that gives these problems, all the others are relatively easy to deal with.

[Flyboy Connor]

I just read that what I considered a bug with the tanar'ri is actually not a bug but a feature: Dispel Magic is supposed to succeed only with a percentage chance, based on the difference between the level of the mage casting the spell, and the level of the spell that is to be dispelled. Unfortunately, since mages are level 7 or 8 at this time in the game, and the Dying effect spell level is 12, the chance for it to succeed is about 10%.

However, in the original game the spell always worked, AFAIK. So I am afraid this may be another issue which stems from the fact that Beamdog used the BG2 engine for BG1.

The problem can still be solved by using potions of mirror eyes, or protection from magic, or just being lucky.

[ÄmJii]

Originally posted by Flyboy Connor:

I just read that what I considered a bug with the tanar'ri is actually not a bug but a feature: Dispel Magic is supposed to succeed only with a percentage chance, based on the difference between the level of the mage casting the spell, and the level of the spell that is to be dispelled. Unfortunately, since mages are level 7 or 8 at this time in the game, and the Dying effect spell level is 12, the chance for it to succeed is about 10%.

However, in the original game the spell always worked, AFAIK. So I am afraid this may be another issue which stems from the fact that Beamdog used the BG2 engine for BG1.

The problem can still be solved by using potions of mirror eyes, or protection from magic, or just being lucky.

Far as I know, Aec'Letec still falls quickly to Wand of Paralyzation (if you can land it).

[Black Sheep Inc]

Personally I had a bard use a wand of paralysis on him then had the bard and my sorcerer spam wands of frost into him until he died. Took a while and used up nearly every charge the frost wands had, but it worked.

[Flyboy Connor]

Yes, paralyzing MAY work. I had it succeed about 5% of the time. Not to be counted on. But there are more cheezy ways of dealing with him. Easiest is still just AoE attacks outside his field of vision.

[red255]

So I checked the wiki, there are 5 weapons that can damage the greater were wolf.
Albruin
The Burning Earth
Kondar (x2 in game apparently)
Sword of Balduran
Werebane

Most are Bastard swords so theres that, but theres a longsword and a dagger sure.

[Ol_OneNut]

Use the wand of polymorph on him EZ

[Flyboy Connor]

The wand of polymorphing in BG1 is an optional side quest reward. I never got it, I have no idea how to get it. Regardless, since the tanar'ri has a very high save against wands, the chance for it to succeed is about 5%. You can just as well paralyze it, that has a higher chance of succeeding and has the same end result.

Kondar is indeed twice in the game, though you have to be willing to kill some guards to get the second copy (and since overall it is not a very good weapon, most players won't do that and definitely will not bring it with them to werewolf island -- since they won't know they are going to meet werewolves). Albruin is Enhanced Edition only and you have to take Dorn in your party to get it. For the Burning Earth you will have to do the whole of Durlag's Tower first. So, overall the designers cannot count on the player having any of these weapons when meeting the GWW, except perhaps Werebane.

[Včelí medvídek]

Bunch of potions of mirrored eyes is everything you need for fight
tanari. Greater werewolf is indeed bit unbalanced (particularly considering no option leave island for unprepared group). As there is nothing fancy to get at all in this quest (only xp and some gold for balduran stuff - borh likely not needed) I feel very free to skip this quest in majority of playthrougs.

[red255]

Originally posted by Flyboy Connor:

. Albruin is Enhanced Edition only and you have to take Dorn in your party to get it. For the Burning Earth you will have to do the whole of Durlag's Tower first. So, overall the designers cannot count on the player having any of these weapons when meeting the GWW, except perhaps Werebane.

just the sword of balduran and the werebane yes.

I normally carry the burning earth because its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sword. (troll killer)

this isn't fallout 4, you aren't given a pass on Very Hard difficulty that you SHOULD win.

this is a game they have 66 HP, and can be harmed by magic missle. which can be fired from your mages and wands.

You could pelt them with greater malision + Hold then go grab the sword and dagger.

If you USE bastard swords Kondar and Ilbruin are well, better than a Bastard Sword +1 so you'd be carrying them arround for Ajantis or whatever. Considering the Sword of Balduran is a Bastard sword you'd be carrying that

Not really sure your issue. theres a amulet that does 6d6 (10 charges)
The One Gift Lost that can be found in various locations.

Pause, queue up the charge usage. let it rip.36x6 damage should nuke it.

Magic missles do 2-5x5 at level 9

[Včelí medvídek]

Red255: I believe OP point was that unaware player has no reason either get those weapons or get/keep them prior going island. Not that GWW can not be defeated. And I agree with that. Durlag tower was actually supposed to be done as very last quest prior Sarevok fight once expansion get released.

It can be real game stoper for unprepared party not able do proper burst damage to beat its regeneration - so imho the question about balance/design is in place.

[red255]

Durlag's tower is on the map sooner, and the guy sells tours to durlag's tower when you get to Uthgardts beard. and then a whole bunch of other people kicking quests to go to the tower show up. save my son, recover my dagger, take the tour.

You telling me they want you to do it AFTER the werewolf thing? yeah sure hon I'll save your son, after I get on this board for 4 months. Demons probably won't have eaten too much of him by then right?

just trying to figure how its AFTER the tower? I mean i get that its that way in your mind, and sure the item and XP reward for the tower is FAR higher than the werewolves.

but still.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by red255:

Durlag's tower is on the map sooner, and the guy sells tours to durlag's tower when you get to Uthgardts beard. and then a whole bunch of other people kicking quests to go to the tower show up. save my son, recover my dagger, take the tour.

You telling me they want you to do it AFTER the werewolf thing? yeah sure hon I'll save your son, after I get on this board for 4 months. Demons probably won't have eaten too much of him by then right?

just trying to figure how its AFTER the tower? I mean i get that its that way in your mind, and sure the item and XP reward for the tower is FAR higher than the werewolves.

but still.

And even if that weren't the case, you CAN still win the fight; I did back in the day.