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Snow Miser Jun 26, 2020 @ 3:07pm
Tommy needs a drum mag...
In all honesty one of the best U.S guns is the Thompson smg and overall it's pretty good for H&G. However, I believe we can do one better and giving the Thompson a 50 round drum mag would be a great buff for the U.S faction and just for players in general.
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Originally posted by baddog:
Originally posted by NJCQEC:
i don't really get why yall have that much of a problem with the tommy getting a drum mag.
First off, it's a video game. Some things might be a little bit fake and not like the real thing, deal with it. Second saying that it wouldn't be like the real thing is being hypocritical, lot's of the guns in this game use things that the real thing wouldn't use. Example: why does every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gun have the same light and heavy springs (excluding snipers) don't each of them have different spring designs? Look all i'm saying is that it would be a cool feature for the thompson and that maybe it doesn't need to be exactly like the real thing.
One of the good things Reto have insisted on over the years is all weapons and vehicles used ingame have to have seen production and combat in WW2, so no prototypes, no experimentals, no 'but someone could have brought it privately', etc to keep some aspect of realistic looks ingame.

Also their last major update was vehicles, where they spent a lot of time working out vehicle armour thicknesses, speeds and module locations for realism.

To then just add a gun mod ingame that couldnt be added is a bit jarring, and would weaken the defence against a lot of other experimental or very low number stuff that may have seen some kind of use (mainly GE cause all their facilities were overrun eventually, even experimental stuff gets used when enemy is 100m away and closing...). Would have to at least add the whole M1928 if a drum was to be added.

And still my biggest concern about drum mag varient, the added sway and larger conefire it would undoubtedly get. Real PpSh performed much better than ingame one, much better at range, BUT Reto added more sway and conefire to 'balance out the much bigger mag' vs other SMG, its pretty safe to assume a drum Tommy would get the same, so my question is, would you buy and use drum Tommy if effective range was lower and it performed more like PpSh when you still have regular Tommy option? Or would it become wasted dev time and a credit sink for new players to complain about?

Personally i would go with regular Tommy and fast reload if the mag size is a problem.
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
BORG Jun 26, 2020 @ 3:37pm 
No. Anyone who knows any history will understand why too.

Swapping between a drum magazine and a box magazine required an extra set of tools during that time period. To load a drum magazine also required the user to have a special tool that would lock the bolt back to the rear. Unlike spring loaded box magazines that were already under tension, reloading a drum magazine required a tool to rotate the spring in the magazine enough to put the rounds under the necessary tension.

Gangsters and outlaws made the drum magazine iconic on the Thompson, not the war front so this game should conform to the historical period and not use drum magazines on the Thompson.
#1
Junior (Banned) Jun 26, 2020 @ 4:15pm 
As far as know and can tell it's 2 diff. Tommy guns the M1921 Thompson is then one with the drum mag
#2
baddog Jun 26, 2020 @ 4:49pm 
Originally posted by Junior:
As far as know and can tell it's 2 diff. Tommy guns the M1921 Thompson is then one with the drum mag
Same, the one with finned barrel and compensator on end has the drum (M1928A1, think it only saw service in WW2 with British, and even then the drum mag was rejected as too noisy, heavy and bulky in favor of stick mags), the model ingame (M1A1) is the later version that only uses stick mags.

Also Reto justify PPD and PpSh sway as balancing with big drum mag, can guarantee any drum tommy will get same treatment, meaning it wont get used, so a waste of dev time, and yet another cash sink for new players.
#3
BORG Jun 26, 2020 @ 4:49pm 
Originally posted by Junior:
As far as know and can tell it's 2 diff. Tommy guns the M1921 Thompson is then one with the drum mag
Sure they were interchangeable with drum and box magazines, but they weren't used much on the front line because they took way too long to reload in the field. For the reasons I stated above, that is why the drum mag and Thmopson became so well known and iconic.
#4
Junior (Banned) Jun 27, 2020 @ 3:19am 
Originally posted by BORG:
Originally posted by Junior:
As far as know and can tell it's 2 diff. Tommy guns the M1921 Thompson is then one with the drum mag
Sure they were interchangeable with drum and box magazines, but they weren't used much on the front line because they took way too long to reload in the field. For the reasons I stated above, that is why the drum mag and Thmopson became so well known and iconic.

Lol no need to add on it BORG..
#5
baddog Jun 27, 2020 @ 5:01am 
Originally posted by Junior:
Originally posted by BORG:
Sure they were interchangeable with drum and box magazines, but they weren't used much on the front line because they took way too long to reload in the field. For the reasons I stated above, that is why the drum mag and Thmopson became so well known and iconic.

Lol no need to add on it BORG..
I will leave it to Ian at Forgotten weapons to explain why you cant interchange drums and sticks on M1A1 Thompson, rather than some 'set of tools to swap them' rubbish. While i may not own a Thompson im gonna go with Forgotten Weapons guy knowing more than everyone on here combined....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4jo8csYpg0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_8qLFoMzl4

Thompson ingame is the M1A1 version, the one in the second video NOT the one in first (that can be swapped with stick mags, but is visually very different).
Last edited by baddog; Jun 27, 2020 @ 5:02am
#6
Isaak Hoss Jun 27, 2020 @ 6:47am 
the Thompson ingame is a variant that can't use drums as far I remember
#7
Junior (Banned) Jun 27, 2020 @ 11:17am 
So wait I do need help here but you is the tommy gun with the drum mag compare to what we have not 2 diff. smgs? or did I get that wrong
#8
baddog Jun 27, 2020 @ 11:30am 
Originally posted by Junior:
So wait I do need help here but you is the tommy gun with the drum mag compare to what we have not 2 diff. smgs? or did I get that wrong
You were right first time, 2 different guns, 1928 version uses drums or sticks but wasnt used by US Army, M1A1 version was used by US (and is the version we already have ingame), but ONLY used stick mags, as it was a simplified version for mass production (tho still a very expensive gun for the time).

But i still say the main problem isnt reskinning a SMG and adding bullet count, its likely Thompson with drum will get the PpSh treatment and be worse at range, in which case it becomes a waste of dev time and a cash sink for unwary, as M2 Carbine or regular Thompson with fast reload would be better options.
Last edited by baddog; Jun 27, 2020 @ 11:33am
#9
Junior (Banned) Jun 27, 2020 @ 11:34am 
Well so I got my "Chicago Typewriter" right and it's just the "rest" of you hwo have no clue what you talk about good good every day H&G super just to make sure....

Thx baddog must love man should you hit the DK let me know...
#10
baddog Jun 27, 2020 @ 11:46am 
Originally posted by Junior:
Well so I got my "Chicago Typewriter" right and it's just the "rest" of you hwo have no clue what you talk about good good every day H&G super just to make sure....

Thx baddog must love man should you hit the DK let me know...
In honesty i know little first hand about Thompson, but i do trust the reputation of Ian at Forgotten Weapons, he is a very good source of info, always researches his stuff, and always does a followup if he is wrong about any details (which is rare!).
#11
Snow Miser Jun 28, 2020 @ 1:44pm 
i mean if your basing this ♥♥♥♥ on reality then why in the hell can you run and jump with a mg42??? in all honesty every single like history video with actual WW2 footage that includes a Mg42, it always takes two people to operate it 1. to aim and shoot the gun 2. to feed the belt. Same goes for other light machine guns.
Last edited by Snow Miser; Jun 28, 2020 @ 1:46pm
#12
BORG Jun 28, 2020 @ 6:44pm 
Well point is the Thompson drum magazine wasn't really used during the second world war. At the time the firearm was perfected around 1919, the end of world war one was over and the surplus of firearms and drum magazines were sold off as surplus to the public. That's where the firearm and drum magazine gained its iconic popularity. The British are really the only ones who tried to use them and they gave up because they're too noisy, too cumbersome, too heavy and it took way too damn long to reload a drum magazine.

Should the Thompson have a drum magazine? No. Maybe if this were Chicago during prohibition it would fit the bill, but this is a world war two era game. This is a world war two game people not Mafia 3.
#13
xpe Jun 29, 2020 @ 6:44am 
Originally posted by NJCQEC:
i mean if your basing this ♥♥♥♥ on reality then why in the hell can you run and jump with a mg42??? in all honesty every single like history video with actual WW2 footage that includes a Mg42, it always takes two people to operate it 1. to aim and shoot the gun 2. to feed the belt. Same goes for other light machine guns.
You're right, current implementation is lazy (imo). They should've added the drum box where the belt is put in for the MG42. Like in Hell Let Loose.
#14
Snow Miser Jul 2, 2020 @ 2:34pm 
i don't really get why yall have that much of a problem with the tommy getting a drum mag.
First off, it's a video game. Some things might be a little bit fake and not like the real thing, deal with it. Second saying that it wouldn't be like the real thing is being hypocritical, lot's of the guns in this game use things that the real thing wouldn't use. Example: why does every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gun have the same light and heavy springs (excluding snipers) don't each of them have different spring designs? Look all i'm saying is that it would be a cool feature for the thompson and that maybe it doesn't need to be exactly like the real thing.
#15
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Heroes & Generals > General Gameplay Talk > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jun 26, 2020 @ 3:07pm
Posts: 25

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