Heroes & Generals

Heroes & Generals

Ceceli Δ Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:30pm
Can someone explain the RETO Logic behind the power of Focke-Wulf in this game?
It's faster, has more damage, more HP and it turns twice as any other. No other matches it. Only way to kill 1 on those is to get 3 others on his back.

I'm new to the airplanes in this game. So... What's the RETO excuse for it besides always buffing the sht out everything of Germany faction?
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Showing 1-15 of 43 comments
TwinuX Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:41pm 
It's Tier-3.

That's the excuse.
James the Blue Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:43pm 
If Reto buffs something, it's because game statistics were saying that something is underperforming. GE planes were a laughing stock for almost 3 years, now that they have something that's a little better, people go crazy. I'm not sure about its exact numbers, but i'd assume the Mustang and YAK have very similar speed and turning. If not, then they should maybe get a little bit of a buff.
TwinuX Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:47pm 
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1711280180
These are the current aircraft stats used in-game (post-FW nerf). You will likely need to open the image in your browser to see it better, due to the sheer size of it.
TwinuX Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:55pm 
Originally posted by James the Blue:
If Reto buffs something, it's because game statistics were saying that something is underperforming. GE planes were a laughing stock for almost 3 years, now that they have something that's a little better, people go crazy. I'm not sure about its exact numbers, but i'd assume the Mustang and YAK have very similar speed and turning. If not, then they should maybe get a little bit of a buff.
The Mustang has far better roll, but roll means very little in a 1v1 fight when your foe can easily out-turn you. Sure, you can switch direction faster, but the FW will catch up within that turn. Constantly rolling might make you harder to hit, but the plane flies much more predictably overall and a wing hit will remove your advantage.

Which is why the FW dominates dogfighting. In a 1v1, all that matters is getting behind your opponent. No plane can pull this off as well as the FW. Wings, the most common component to be destroyed in a dogfight, do not reduce this turn rate, meaning a FW can have both wings destroyed and still out-turn any foe. Elevator hits are needed to prevent this, which are very hard to pull off against a plane that will give you, at best, a split second window before they out-turn you and begin working their way behind you.
James the Blue Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:55pm 
Originally posted by TwinuX:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1711280180
These are the current aircraft stats used in-game (post-FW nerf). You will likely need to open the image in your browser to see it better, due to the sheer size of it.

Damn, that's a big image. Okay, so I looked at it. I'm not totally sure what those numbers mean though. To me it seemed like the FW is better and worse in some ways than other planes, unless it would be better in some stats for the number to be lower, i'm not sure though.
James the Blue Jun 17, 2019 @ 6:00pm 
Originally posted by TwinuX:
Originally posted by James the Blue:
If Reto buffs something, it's because game statistics were saying that something is underperforming. GE planes were a laughing stock for almost 3 years, now that they have something that's a little better, people go crazy. I'm not sure about its exact numbers, but i'd assume the Mustang and YAK have very similar speed and turning. If not, then they should maybe get a little bit of a buff.
The Mustang has far better roll, but roll means very little in a 1v1 fight when your foe can easily out-turn you. Sure, you can switch direction faster, but the FW will catch up within that turn. Constantly rolling might make you harder to hit, but the plane flies much more predictably overall and a wing hit will remove your advantage.

Which is why the FW dominates dogfighting. In a 1v1, all that matters is getting behind your opponent. No plane can pull this off as well as the FW. Wings, the most common component to be destroyed in a dogfight, do not reduce this turn rate, meaning a FW can have both wings destroyed and still out-turn any foe. Elevator hits are needed to prevent this, which are very hard to pull off against a plane that will give you, at best, a split second window before they out-turn you and begin working their way behind you.

Okay, to me it seems then just buff the turn rate to be closer to the FW for the P-51 and LA-7.
TwinuX Jun 17, 2019 @ 6:05pm 
Originally posted by James the Blue:
Originally posted by TwinuX:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1711280180
These are the current aircraft stats used in-game (post-FW nerf). You will likely need to open the image in your browser to see it better, due to the sheer size of it.

Damn, that's a big image. Okay, so I looked at it. I'm not totally sure what those numbers mean though. To me it seemed like the FW is better and worse in some ways than other planes, unless it would be better in some stats for the number to be lower, i'm not sure though.
Statistically, the FW appears balanced overall. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. The issue lies in how Reto perceives the game versus how it actually plays.

Reto considers each value to be of equal impact and importance in-game, which is simply wrong.
Some values, such as the LA-7s highest takeoff speed, means almost nothing in-game, while the minor turn rate advantage the FW has over the P38 means that any prolonged turn fight will result in the FW ending up behind the P38 in pretty much every case.

The issue is that, as previously mentioned, not all stats are equal and Reto seems to think otherwise. FW was hilariously broken when it was first released, as it's turn rate was far higher than any other aircraft, rather than it's current minor overall advantage against the previous highest, the P38. This stat is one of the most important for a plane, as it effectively dictates the hierarchy of who-eats-who in the skies, in a 1v1.
TwinuX Jun 17, 2019 @ 6:09pm 
Originally posted by James the Blue:
Okay, to me it seems then just buff the turn rate to be closer to the FW for the P-51 and LA-7.
The problem there, inherently, is that we end up with the T3 aircraft sitting roughly on-par with eachother while completely blowing the lower-tier stuff out of the skies.

The previous setup had T1s still retain some advantages over the T2s, that could be exploited by skilled pilots. Now, T1s are completely useless as dogfighters and T2s are only used by those who owned them prior and are grinding for the T3s.

The only real value in T1s is in the 109d's centre-mounted cannon, which can snipe with HE, and the P35s .30mgs, which won't completely loose dogfighting capability when the .50s are equipped with HE, like P40 and P51 do. Buying a second P51 fixes this issue.
şamelinho Jun 17, 2019 @ 11:42pm 
Buy GE pilot, farm, git Focke-Wulf, become the king of air.
Mac Jun 18, 2019 @ 12:03am 
Again with this discussion oh lord...
Do you guys not play war at all?

Next time I play my Yak-9 again in war (might be a while though cuz recently this game is not my favourite anymore) I should take some screenshots of matches that involve fighter planes on both sides. They usually end pretty even for both sides, hell I have even seen SU pilots dominate the sky over GE pilots and I play as a lonewolf exclusively so it was not a matter of a group of skilled pilots ganging up on newbie pilots.

Originally posted by Ceceli:
It's faster
No, it's not. It's more maneuverable than any other plane but only by a tiny margin. It's definately not overall "faster" though. The Mustang can easily outrun it.

Originally posted by Ceceli:
has more damage
How do you even come to that conclusion? It has 2 cannons and an MG, same as the Yak-9 or the P38 for example. As far as I know the damage on those guns are all the same and on top of that the FW cannon has a lot of spread. Try aiming it at a ground target like a jeep from say 200 m away for example and you'll know what I mean. Yak-9 cannons are far more precise and accurate and P38 cannons are surgical lasers for that matter. Now Mustangs are a different matter but I talked a lot about that in another thread TLDR I don't think they are by any means inferior but they definately require a very different playstyle compared to any other plane.

Originally posted by Ceceli:
has more HP
Again... how do you come up with these statements? Does it really? If I am wrong I'll gladly admit it but to my knowledge the HP of most of the T2 and T3 Fighter planes are pretty much the same give or take a few percentages maybe. From my experience it's only the recon planes and T1 fighter planes that do go down quicker by a significantly enough margin to even notice.

Originally posted by Ceceli:
it turns twice as any other
As others already mentioned the Mustang is superior in its roll speed for example. Yaw and Pitch is where the FW domintes but only by a tiny margin. If you go in circles with a Yak-9 or a Mustang it will take you quite a while before you catch up to it. You will eventually catch up to it, always but it will take a long time. During that time you are easy cannon fodder for any other pilots in the sky because air battles are seldom 1v1 but rather 5v5 and if you only fly in circles in a Mustang or a Yak-9 against a FW then you are honestly doing the wrong thing as a pilot because you are doing exactly what th FW pilot wants you to do.

So what I think happened here is.

A: You encountered pilots that were more skilled than you, fair enough.
B: Those pilots wore flak jacket gold, you did not. This makes it appear like "Omg why isn't his plane going down but mine goes down so quickly". That's because of a badge, not because of the plane. This badge gives your plane basically twice the amount of HP. Yes... Reto logic...
C: You played staged where pretty much every battle currently is swarmed with GE pilots and its basically a 10 GE planes vs 4 SU/US Planes massacre.
Ceceli Δ Jun 18, 2019 @ 8:04am 
Thank you all for replying, except Mac with his attitude. He can GTFO. Thanks.
Mac Jun 18, 2019 @ 8:12am 
"My attitude". I am merely stating facts here Mr. US fanboy I assume.
Can someone explain the RETO Logic behind the power of P-38, M-10, M-36 in this game?

It's faster, has more damage, more HP and it turns twice as any other. No other matches it. Only way to kill 1 on those is to get 3 others on his back.

So... What's the RETO excuse for it besides always buffing the sht out everything of US faction?
Last edited by Crystal meth enthusiast; Jun 18, 2019 @ 10:27am
Ceceli Δ Jun 18, 2019 @ 2:11pm 
Originally posted by Pink Omega:
Can someone explain the RETO Logic behind the power of P-38, M-10, M-36 in this game?

It's faster, has more damage, more HP and it turns twice as any other. No other matches it. Only way to kill 1 on those is to get 3 others on his back.

So... What's the RETO excuse for it besides always buffing the sht out everything of US faction?

Good bait, mate.
I flew the FW 190 on the second proto for bipods, I use Mouse control and am not too good (IMO, despite having quite a lot of time sunk into War Thunder), in ONE Plane, I faced 2 P-51s, the advantages the FW does have made this fight a breeze, though the pilots didn't seem to be on comms with one another
the only way I see of actually defeating a FW is to use something akin to the Thatch Weave with you and a wingman on comms where one baits them onto his tail and the other swoops in and blows out his Elevator, although this wouldn't work if the Enemy team out-numbers you in the Sky (which Germans generally do) and simply swarms your two planes with 3 FW's each.
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Date Posted: Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:30pm
Posts: 43