Panther is a heavy tank

[Gamera]

Yes, Panther served as german main tank, and thay looked at it as medium, since it is medium in comparison to their other tanks and as best of their tanks too. In comparison to the any other tank it was heavy tank,.. looking by its weight or gun or armour.. so simply put all medium tanks in game should be inferior (and thay are) but also its not fair game if you put a dude in panther versus anything other

THIS REFERS ONLY TO THE STANDARD GAME MODE, NOT WAR MODE

[Voodoo]

On that i agree, but thats the same reason we will never see kv-1 and kv-2 as they wouldnt stand a chance against regular heavy tanks and jumbo was really forced as heavy tank...

they should classify tanks according to year of production.
1939-1941, 1941-1943, 1943-1945
in that pattern panther introduced in 1943 would be put in last category and facing tanks like is-2 and pershing.
Problem is that shermans will still face superior german armor as tiger 1 is relatively old tank which entered service in 1942 the same year as sherman.
Also chaffee is 1944 so rejoice :)

[Gamera]

Voodoo lähetti viestin:

On that i agree, but thats the same reason we will never see kv-1 and kv-2 as they wouldnt stand a chance against regular heavy tanks and jumbo was really forced as heavy tank...

they should classify tanks according to year of production.
1939-1941, 1941-1943, 1943-1945
in that pattern panther introduced in 1943 would be put in last category and facing tanks like is-2 and pershing.
Problem is that shermans will still face superior german armor as tiger 1 is relatively old tank which entered service in 1942 the same year as sherman.

How did Allies deal with them ?,.. i feel like its faster to ask then to go watch documentary

[Voodoo]

They didnt, better tanks were sent east to deal with t-34's

Us tanks were just ♥♥♥♥ in terms of armor and armament but they werent as faulty as german or soviet tanks. Even british decided that 75mm is silly and upgraded to 17pounder
the same british which thought smgs are superficial and infantry can just form ranks to increase firepower.

[Gamera]

Voodoo lähetti viestin:

They didnt, better tanks were sent eat to deal with t-34's

:D Well, that is't a option here, but it would be a godsend
I tought about extending your rank in the game to equipment you can use... So, you have some % of players that are on top of the list that would be in league of their own,.. Global Elite or Dimond or however its called and so on and as you gain rank you gain acess to the weapons too (Tiger for example is in second best class or whereever its succes rate puts it) and when you losse rank you losse the acess to those.. and while this works for games that have all their players on equal ground it works for this it wont work just like that, but if its implemented well,.. it would be something realy unique and from this perspective more immersive,.. since when you see Tiger you know its not some noob that bought its way in the game,.. whoops,.. thats the problem,.. back to drawing board

[Voodoo]

So strong getting even stronger?? no thats terrible and i shouldnt even need to explain why.

[dr46onfusion]

They definitely need to bring the Jumbo into the highest tier of the medium tank then, and add another possible heavy tank to the list, like a M26 Pershing with modifications.

Not historically accurate in production and use, the T23 Pershing has a 76mm cannon, can fit as the tier 1 of the heavy tank for instance.

Otherwise we need two versions of the Jumbo, one with a weaker gun, another with a more powerful gun and better turret.

Intended for the assault to break out of the Normandy beachhead, it was originally to be armed with the 76 mm gun, but the 75 mm was preferred for infantry support and was used.[102] The higher weight required reducing maximum speed to 22 mph, and crews were warned not to let the suspension "bottom" too violently. 254 were built at the Fisher Tank Arsenal from May to July 1944, and arrived in Europe in the fall of 1944, being employed throughout the remainder of the fighting in various roles. They were "considered highly successful".

So yeah 75mm gun for medium Jumbo, and a 76mm gun and maybe even more armor, for a better variantion of Jumbo for heavy matches.

[Subass39]

Kai lähetti viestin:

They definitely need to bring the Jumbo into the highest tier of the medium tank then, and add another possible heavy tank to the list, like a M26 Pershing with modifications.

oh yes, bring the impenetrable jumbo shrimp to medium tanks

im pretty sure low tier soviet and german tanks would find it fair fighting it.

[Gamera]

Voodoo lähetti viestin:

So strong getting even stronger?? no thats terrible and i shouldnt even need to explain why.

You don't need to, i am aware of that but you can't blame man for fantasizing ;D

[dr46onfusion]

Subass39 lähetti viestin:

Kai lähetti viestin:

They definitely need to bring the Jumbo into the highest tier of the medium tank then, and add another possible heavy tank to the list, like a M26 Pershing with modifications.

oh yes, bring the impenetrable jumbo shrimp to medium tanks

im pretty sure low tier soviet and german tanks would find it fair fighting it.

Most of the time tanks are taken out because they strayed too far or anti-tank infantry takes them out. It's not often for US tanks to stay alive for very long periods of time in active combat frontally.

The reason why the 85mm gun isn't that great for the soviets is because Reto deems it.

[Subass39]

Kai lähetti viestin:

Subass39 lähetti viestin:

oh yes, bring the impenetrable jumbo shrimp to medium tanks

im pretty sure low tier soviet and german tanks would find it fair fighting it.

Most of the time tanks are taken out because they strayed too far or anti-tank infantry takes them out. It's not often for US tanks to stay alive for very long periods of time in active combat frontally.

The reason why the 85mm gun isn't that great for the soviets is because Reto deems it.

I like to call it fair assymetrical balance.

Unless the Jumbo is going to be reduced in armor so low tier 75mm GE guns and 76mm SU guns can penetrate it frontally then i would agree with adding jumbo in medium tier.

While we are at it bring down the Pz3 and T-28 to lights (You should be ok with this if you care about balance for all factions, right?)


PS: The 85mm gun is actually pretty good, you forget its advantage of being able to have a guaranteed 2 shot ability. The 85mm gun has very high muzzle velocity (yes, it can shoot down planes too)

[dr46onfusion]

The issue is mostly because in terms of medium tanks like the M4 Sherman, the US doctrine didn't bother to improve these tank designs due to the overall 'battle' involving a lot of conditions, whilst Soviets and German forces had a tank arms race.

They involved tank destroyers to destroy tanks, they considered main battle tanks to be utilized for infantry support.

Granted, the US forces pretty much had a ton of towed anti-tank weaponry and artillery pieces as the main reason why they didn't bother to go with mass producing a tougher tank for a tank on tank brawl... Because they don't feel like having a fist fight when they can seek to win.

Had we not given up the anti-tank infantry class, we could have seen interesting vehicle options like a Towed artillery or anti-tank gun placements, or tank destroyer variants of existing vehicles (M3 GMC for instance).

[Doge]

Yeah put the panther in the heavy tank category, just so whiny people like you can say "MUH NOT FAIR GERMANY HAS 3 HEAVIES NO FAIR NERF NERF NERF :( :( !!!!1!1!"

You wanna know how the allies dealt with German tanks like the panther and Tiger II?

THEY FLANKED THEM.

But you want to go face to face against a Panther with a clearly inferior tank.
Guess what?
Not gonna work kid

Just another pointless thread with the stupid argument of "GERMANS ARE OP NERF NERF NERF :((( !!!111!".
-We just know how to use our equipment, unlike you.

[Voodoo]

.ғяαηcσ lähetti viestin:

THEY FLANKED THEM.

Tbh they were losing 4 tanks for each enemy tank...
This is not viable tactic.

[Gamera]

.ғяαηcσ lähetti viestin:

Yeah put the panther in the heavy tank category, just so whiny people like you can say "MUH NOT FAIR GERMANY HAS 3 HEAVIES NO FAIR NERF NERF NERF :( :( !!!!1!1!"

You wanna know how the allies dealt with German tanks like the panther and Tiger II?

THEY FLANKED THEM.

But you want to go face to face against a Panther with a clearly inferior tank.
Guess what?
Not gonna work kid

Just another pointless thread with the stupid argument of "GERMANS ARE OP NERF NERF NERF :((( !!!111!".
-We just know how to use our equipment, unlike you.

Men,.. flanking is not an option that is valid here since its most offten a suicide even with much faster hellcat in order to flank it, given a map that is large enough to do such thing without being spoted immediately, your survivability after such manuver is quite low and after death you need to spawn and then go around the map again and enemy by now knows what to expect.

Btw.. last war was
~500 wins for russians
~800 wins for Us
and ~1400 wins for Germany
although US won the war to me from a perspective of a soldier, we lost
Was that because of Panther, for some part, maybe,.. i dont have the stats, i think it is

[baddog]

Gamera lähetti viestin:

My god,.. Shermans are too squishy for Panther, there is no equivalent to it on the US side and playing normal game Shermans vs Panthers is no fun for Shermans. Putting M26 is not an answer but giving maybe few more Shermans to compensate for the diference, if you have some stats on how many Shermans are needed to kill one panther you could work out the difference or something, tutorial with some tank tactics something,.. i just play the game and getting wreckd by Panthers ,.. and i am serching fo solution
Btw, Tiger two is superheavy and similarity of Panther to havey tanks do put it in heavy class

Take a look, come up with a plan, let us know how it works out...
https://heroesandgenerals.com/forums/topic/63065-tanks-guideperformanceweakspots/

Additional tip, US tanks have slowest shell velocity, so at distance they tend to arc, at long distance (or with some height, or combination of both) and with practice you can use this to either drop your shells on the roof/engine deck, or often the angle the shell comes in at is enough to conteract the angle of Panthers armour if you hit the upper glacis.

Good luck from another mainly US tanker, SU and GE on the side. :)