I feel like this franchise becomes less about tower defense each time

[Aurelius]

Seriously, by now the heroes are already often much more important than the towers. The tower defense was always the most fun part of OMD, not the sub-par 3rd person action gameplay, yet they keep making the franchise increasingly about that. And now this is also some forced 4-player multiplayer game where solo is just an afterthought and barely supported at all.

[Aurelius]

Publicado originalmente por cerebron:

It's not more about more players. So maps now more open and bigger. Less waves because imagine like how long one session can be.

What?

It's not more about more players, so maps now more open and bigger? That doesn't seem to make any sense. They seem to be bigger exactly BECAUSE it's designed for 4 players instead of 1-2 like previously.

Why don't you run your posts through ChatGPT or another AI to make them intelligible? It's free.

[Florian]

Publicado originalmente por Multigun:

Publicado originalmente por Florian:

The difference is that in the older games barricades weren't mandatory on every single level. In OMDD they are.

Yes they were. Unless you were playing on the easiest difficulties, and didn't care about 5 skulling every map. At which point, guess what, you can do the same freaken thing in Deathtrap.

No they weren't because of 2 reasons.

!) The older games had smaller maps, with fewer entrances, and far far fewer holes in walls so far fewer possible paths. Which removes the need to place barricades just to fix the pathing on those maps.

2) The older games had tighter, less wide hallways, causing the orcs to crowd together and be easier to hit. In contrast; most hallways in OMDD are at least 4 squares wide, causing the orcs to spread out, and be harder to hit with traps.

Where there big wide hallways that required building a snaking killbox, or maps that required plugging holes in walls to fix pathing? Sure, but it wasn't every single map like it is in OMDD.

And that's the core issue. If OMDD had 6 large open map, and 6 smaller tigher maps to balance things out and give a varied experience, it'd be fine. But it doesn't. It has 12 large open maps, a good chunk of which feel like they could be cut into half to create 2 more tightly designed maps.

Publicado originalmente por Multigun:

PoE2 is such a massive fail because you could build out your skill tree online on day 1. What a pathetic excuse for a game. (thats sarcasm).

You do realize that the skill tree in PoE is regularly brought up as an abomination right?
Like, it's one of the most common complaints you can find about that game.
Sure, it doesn't ruin the entire game, but it's frequently brought up as a weak point that turns people away.

Publicado originalmente por Multigun:

Publicado originalmente por Florian:

It's mostly the fact that you're willing to actually acknowledge that adding different map types is even worth considering. The other defenders seem to insist that the big maps are perfect the way they are, and seem to utterly fail to understand what the complaints actually are about.

Don't recall saying the maps were perfect. Most people who enjoy Deathtrap haven't been saying that either. But I do recognize almost every single one of you "Deathtrap bad" criticism claim Orcs Must Die 2/3 didn't do it so therefore, Deathtrap bad. Except, 95% of yours all complaints, you HAD to do in OMD 2/3 too.

We literally just want a bunch of smaller, tighter maps. OMDD very simply does not have those. Older games did. How in the world do you conclude that the complaints hold for both games?

Publicado originalmente por Multigun:

But those games were fine, but Deathtrap bad. We get it.

O no, OMDD it's fine. The older games however, were great.

[Xen0n]

Fight boss at the red circle with your back against the wall. then he wont touch the barricades
https://omddplaner.com/map/royal-coliseum/otAsNUwsfq

[[BearCatAi]Joey]

I'm just happy the devs are taking feedback like this to heart. I feel pretty confident they'll add more map variety, trap variety, thread variety etc, as they go so the biggest sin this game will have committed will be not having launched as early access to let players more immediately know it's a work in progress.

[ChubbiChibbai]

Publicado originalmente por Aurelius:

Seriously, by now the heroes are already often much more important than the towers. The tower defense was always the most fun part of OMD, not the sub-par 3rd person action gameplay, yet they keep making the franchise increasingly about that. And now this is also some forced 4-player multiplayer game where solo is just an afterthought and barely supported at all.

Did you watch the tutorial videos?
The entire economy is built around combos which you can only really do with traps combined with your own attacks.

It's very much about tower defense. Just sounds like you need to learn where to place your towers and barricades.

Also its not forced multiplayer. I have played exclusively single player and couldn't be happier with the game.

[Zouls]

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Publicado originalmente por Aurelius:

Seriously, by now the heroes are already often much more important than the towers. The tower defense was always the most fun part of OMD, not the sub-par 3rd person action gameplay, yet they keep making the franchise increasingly about that. And now this is also some forced 4-player multiplayer game where solo is just an afterthought and barely supported at all.

Did you watch the tutorial videos?
The entire economy is built around combos which you can only really do with traps combined with your own attacks.

It's very much about tower defense. Just sounds like you need to learn where to place your towers and barricades.

Also its not forced multiplayer. I have played exclusively single player and couldn't be happier with the game.

i just want to say in their defense, the combo video doesnt mention that it gives more rune coins, which is dumb, but yeah every combo point is 5% more coin from a kill, so if you dont combo then you are tanking your own economy.

[Florian]

Publicado originalmente por BearCatAiJoey:

I'm just happy the devs are taking feedback like this to heart. I feel pretty confident they'll add more map variety, trap variety, thread variety etc, as they go so the biggest sin this game will have committed will be not having launched as early access to let players more immediately know it's a work in progress.

O yeah, the dev's being active looks promising.

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Publicado originalmente por Aurelius:

Seriously, by now the heroes are already often much more important than the towers. The tower defense was always the most fun part of OMD, not the sub-par 3rd person action gameplay, yet they keep making the franchise increasingly about that. And now this is also some forced 4-player multiplayer game where solo is just an afterthought and barely supported at all.

Did you watch the tutorial videos?
The entire economy is built around combos which you can only really do with traps combined with your own attacks.

The inherent problem with focusing on combo's is that the postive effects aren't really all that visible, while the negatives are very noticeable. Like the average player isn't going to notice an orc gave slightly more coins; but they are going to notice it just survived 4 different traps.

On the other hand, a trap that oneshot orcs in a shower of giblets is very visible feedback of your trap doing its job. Which makes that trap more powerfull; because there's immeadiate feedback that they actually did something.

It's especially kind of sad at higher difficulties, where everything is a bulletsponge and even the puniest of orc just walks through trap after trap.

I wonder if it'd feel better if difficulty only adjusted the HP of the big stuff, like ogers and trolls, with the basic ors still quickly getting splattered. You get to keep the satisfaction of the traps visually being effective against the small stuff, but combo's remain important to deal with the big stuff.

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Also its not forced multiplayer. I have played exclusively single player and couldn't be happier with the game.

I mean, the way the OMDD maps are designed is clearly slanted towards multiplayer. They're large, they always have 4 gates & the paths never naturally merge. A lot of the cool set-pieces are relativly close to the gates, encouraging you to have a player at each gate. There's really no denying the map design works better with 4 people than with 1.

[[BearCatAi]Joey]

Publicado originalmente por Florian:

Publicado originalmente por BearCatAiJoey:

I'm just happy the devs are taking feedback like this to heart. I feel pretty confident they'll add more map variety, trap variety, thread variety etc, as they go so the biggest sin this game will have committed will be not having launched as early access to let players more immediately know it's a work in progress.

O yeah, the dev's being active looks promising.

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Did you watch the tutorial videos?
The entire economy is built around combos which you can only really do with traps combined with your own attacks.

The inherent problem with focusing on combo's is that the postive effects aren't really all that visible, while the negatives are very noticeable. Like the average player isn't going to notice an orc gave slightly more coins; but they are going to notice it just survived 4 different traps.

On the other hand, a trap that oneshot orcs in a shower of giblets is very visible feedback of your trap doing its job. Which makes that trap more powerfull; because there's immeadiate feedback that they actually did something.

It's especially kind of sad at higher difficulties, where everything is a bulletsponge and even the puniest of orc just walks through trap after trap.

I wonder if it'd feel better if difficulty only adjusted the HP of the big stuff, like ogers and trolls, with the basic ors still quickly getting splattered. You get to keep the satisfaction of the traps visually being effective against the small stuff, but combo's remain important to deal with the big stuff.

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Also its not forced multiplayer. I have played exclusively single player and couldn't be happier with the game.

I mean, the way the OMDD maps are designed is clearly slanted towards multiplayer. They're large, they always have 4 gates & the paths never naturally merge. A lot of the cool set-pieces are relativly close to the gates, encouraging you to have a player at each gate. There's really no denying the map design works better with 4 people than with 1.

have you tried update 1.09 yet? It just changed how hp scaling works so maybe it'll feel less spongy for you now.

[Ð乇ｷ乇ζЦ乇Ð]

So are you saying I won't enjoy this game since MP is not my thing these days?

[Multigun]

Publicado originalmente por Ð乇ｷ乇ζЦ乇Ð:

So are you saying I won't enjoy this game since MP is not my thing these days?

Anybody who continues to claim the game is only for MP is flat out lying. Completed the game on two profiles completely solo. There are tons of people who are handling the hardest difficulties in the game just fine completely solo.

[Florian]

Publicado originalmente por Ð乇ｷ乇ζЦ乇Ð:

So are you saying I won't enjoy this game since MP is not my thing these days?

You might still enjoy it. It's not a bad solo game. But it is very clear that the game design is focused on multiplayer. Or at least, wants to focus on it. Solo play still works, and it's more than doable to beat all the levels. There'll just be a bunch of weird design that wouldn't be a noticeable problem if you had teammembers.

The most obvious problem being the 4 gates on every single map. If you have 4 players, that's fine. But solo there's going to be times you'd wish you could cut the maps in half and not have to worry about all 4 gates.