General questions and comparison with previous games

[Ratnadhatamam]

Alright the game is out now, and of course some of the things discussed in the forum for months seem to be confirmed...

So just a few quick questions before purchase (or not):

• No campaign as in the other games? All enemies and traps from the start and figure it out.
  
• There are only a few maps? (And all of them are the open-type, no corridor maps, or other interesting setups).
  
• Fewer weapons and fewer traps than previous games?
  
• Max and Gabrielle are just an afterthought because people complained about the characters? (Seems she was not even ready for release)
  
• Game was made for co-op with 4 players, and everything else (1-3) feels unbalanced?
  
• No endless and just one game mode that repeats the same maps/areas?
  
• Cannot upgrade traps/gear?
  
• Game wants you to grind (and grind, and grind, and...) doing the same things, unlike the first games, were if you had skill, you could overcome one challenge and move on (or try it in a whole different way)?

And a common complaint seems to be that the game feels unpolished/early access in some ways.

Thanks to fellow players for you comments.

EDIT

: adding a new question I thought is important

• Since the game seems to have shifted to a "roguelite", does that mean I cannot pick a map, finish it, and then take a break? If I go back to the game 5 hours later or the next day, would I have to redo the maps I did before?

[Termagant]

-No campaign. You have a decent choice of traps from the start and can unlock more when you complete maps. One new trap per completed map.

-Not a lot of maps, that is true. All of them are very big with multiple orc exit points. Some have two rifts. Most of them dont allow you to funnel all orcs into a single corridor. Even if you manage to do so you dont have barricades left for killboxes.

-Just one weapon per character, you cannot switch them. However, to offset you get some skills. Which are mostly situational. Trap amount feels to be pretty similar, however there are just a couple of new ones. Most of them you know from previous games.

-Gabrielle is indeed not playable, max can be unlocked immediately when you find the hidden mirror shards in the staging zone.

-I tried to play solo which is absolutely not fun at all. Since they limited barricades to a fixed amount the game has become very stressfull for solo players.

-Yes. No endless and just one "mission type" mode where you have to play 2-3 maps then a bossmap comes.

-You can upgrade trap damage, lower its cost and reload speed. But no special stuff like in OMD3

-Well, yes. It is supposed to be roguelite now and you can invest in a perk tree to get some passive boni.

I think it can be fun when you enjoy it with a couple of friends in voice. For solo player or pickup teams...i have my doubts.

[Jaunty]

Ah man was hoping Robot Entertainment wouldn't drop the ball on this one.

@Termagant you seem to know a lot, have you written a review? Plz link if so.

[Termagant]

Yeah i did but it contains everything you have mentioned here.
I played it for four hours and then refunded it because it just wasnt fun.
I didnt like being forced into maps (those missions i mentioned basically tell you what map you have to play next.).
But thats not even the worst part. That barricade limit is extremely limiting. You have to make one of two choices:
-Use them for killboxes. Thats what i love to do.
-Use them to close the gazillion of diffrent ways the orcs can run to reach your rift.

You cant do both. If you go for option one you spend your whole time with running after orcs who slip through or just spam balistas everywhere to keep up with the killing. This is EXTREMELY stressfull as a solo player.

If you go for option two you dont have enough barricades for a killbox. You have to use traps which work over large open areas...which pretty much eliminate 80% of them.
It doesnt make sense to unlock an electrocuter if it just covers one tile.

And yeah...then theres the enemies. They throw everything at you from the very first map. Flyers, assassins, supporters. Even if you have built the perfect maze you better still have some balistas up near your rift because those buggers will break through.

Well, i hope they somehow salvage this because i was really looking forward to a new OMD. But this definately isnt for me.

[Black Hammer]

• No campaign as in the other games? All enemies and traps from the start and figure it out.
  No campaign. Traps are unlocked more or less like before. Enemies are all in sort of a random pool, it feels like, aside from a few tied to map modifiers.
  
  
• There are only a few maps? (And all of them are the open-type, no corridor maps, or other interesting setups).
  Can't say how many maps there are, not a huge amount.
  
  
• Fewer weapons and fewer traps than previous games?
  Traps feels about right. Weapons are locked to characters and there are 7 characters.
  
  
• Max and Gabrielle are just an afterthought because people complained about the characters? (Seems she was not even ready for release)
  Yeah, they really aggressively wanted to push their new characters and only jammed in an easy unlock for Max and started working on Gabby because nobody but them found their super bland cast interesting. Dunno why they hate the original characters so much, but it seems like crapping on Max and trying to write him out of the plot has been their goal since OMD3. He went from a likable goof to just being mocked directly after OMD2, it's a jarring shift.
  
  
• Game was made for co-op with 4 players, and everything else (1-3) feels unbalanced?
  I played solo, don't think it is very unbalanced. They are also apparently looking at ways to compensate for having fewer players even more, but I don't know that it's needed.
  
  
• No endless and just one game mode that repeats the same maps/areas?
  Endless is sort-of in. There's the main mode where you play three maps and fight a boss. I suspect more modes will be added.
  
  
• Cannot upgrade traps/gear?
  You can upgrade traps and characters.
  
  
• Game wants you to grind (and grind, and grind, and...) doing the same things, unlike the first games, were if you had skill, you could overcome one challenge and move on (or try it in a whole different way)?
  I wouldn't say it wants you to grind; you replay the maps and kill orcs in every OMD game, this just focuses on that iterative process with random modifiers instead of few fixed challenges.

[Robot Entertainment Community]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

• No campaign as in the other games? All enemies and traps from the start and figure it out.
  No campaign. Traps are unlocked more or less like before. Enemies are all in sort of a random pool, it feels like, aside from a few tied to map modifiers.
  
  
• There are only a few maps? (And all of them are the open-type, no corridor maps, or other interesting setups).
  Can't say how many maps there are, not a huge amount.
  
  
• Fewer weapons and fewer traps than previous games?
  Traps feels about right. Weapons are locked to characters and there are 7 characters.
  
  
• Max and Gabrielle are just an afterthought because people complained about the characters? (Seems she was not even ready for release)
  Yeah, they really aggressively wanted to push their new characters and only jammed in an easy unlock for Max and started working on Gabby because nobody but them found their super bland cast interesting. Dunno why they hate the original characters so much, but it seems like crapping on Max and trying to write him out of the plot has been their goal since OMD3. He went from a likable goof to just being mocked directly after OMD2, it's a jarring shift.
  
  
• Game was made for co-op with 4 players, and everything else (1-3) feels unbalanced?
  I played solo, don't think it is very unbalanced. They are also apparently looking at ways to compensate for having fewer players even more, but I don't know that it's needed.
  
  
• No endless and just one game mode that repeats the same maps/areas?
  Endless is sort-of in. There's the main mode where you play three maps and fight a boss. I suspect more modes will be added.
  
  
• Cannot upgrade traps/gear?
  You can upgrade traps and characters.
  
  
• Game wants you to grind (and grind, and grind, and...) doing the same things, unlike the first games, were if you had skill, you could overcome one challenge and move on (or try it in a whole different way)?
  I wouldn't say it wants you to grind; you replay the maps and kill orcs in every OMD game, this just focuses on that iterative process with random modifiers instead of few fixed challenges.

To chime in (all feedback is appreciated here positive and negative) but right now we currently have 11 maps, 12 will be when Resort Canal is out (which we included concepts of in our latest steam news post titled "post-launch plans" - there are also variations of our maps in those 11 now that have night and day and weather conditions (rain). I hope this helps with that question!

[Zouls]

Originally posted by Robot Entertainment Community:

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

• No campaign as in the other games? All enemies and traps from the start and figure it out.
  No campaign. Traps are unlocked more or less like before. Enemies are all in sort of a random pool, it feels like, aside from a few tied to map modifiers.
  
  
• There are only a few maps? (And all of them are the open-type, no corridor maps, or other interesting setups).
  Can't say how many maps there are, not a huge amount.
  
  
• Fewer weapons and fewer traps than previous games?
  Traps feels about right. Weapons are locked to characters and there are 7 characters.
  
  
• Max and Gabrielle are just an afterthought because people complained about the characters? (Seems she was not even ready for release)
  Yeah, they really aggressively wanted to push their new characters and only jammed in an easy unlock for Max and started working on Gabby because nobody but them found their super bland cast interesting. Dunno why they hate the original characters so much, but it seems like crapping on Max and trying to write him out of the plot has been their goal since OMD3. He went from a likable goof to just being mocked directly after OMD2, it's a jarring shift.
  
  
• Game was made for co-op with 4 players, and everything else (1-3) feels unbalanced?
  I played solo, don't think it is very unbalanced. They are also apparently looking at ways to compensate for having fewer players even more, but I don't know that it's needed.
  
  
• No endless and just one game mode that repeats the same maps/areas?
  Endless is sort-of in. There's the main mode where you play three maps and fight a boss. I suspect more modes will be added.
  
  
• Cannot upgrade traps/gear?
  You can upgrade traps and characters.
  
  
• Game wants you to grind (and grind, and grind, and...) doing the same things, unlike the first games, were if you had skill, you could overcome one challenge and move on (or try it in a whole different way)?
  I wouldn't say it wants you to grind; you replay the maps and kill orcs in every OMD game, this just focuses on that iterative process with random modifiers instead of few fixed challenges.

To chime in (all feedback is appreciated here positive and negative) but right now we currently have 11 maps, 12 will be when Resort Canal is out (which we included concepts of in our latest steam news post titled "post-launch plans" - there are also variations of our maps in those 11 now that have night and day and weather conditions (rain). I hope this helps with that question!

I cant figure out does the 11 map thing count the 3 spots on the drydocks map as 3 maps or 1 map

[Jaunty]

Originally posted by Termagant:

Yeah i did but it contains everything you have mentioned here.

Well, i hope they somehow salvage this because i was really looking forward to a new OMD. But this definately isnt for me.

Ok thankyou and yeh I hope so too.

[CyberDown]

Im still wait and see on this. Last game the issue was new players couldnt figure out what to do, and everyone needed to do their part, which meant often that if 1 player was clueless it was a failed match so people would bail. A lot of people didnt enjoy the learning curve, and even knowing what to do, you couldnt carry. Traps were sorta weak and there were too many lanes to cover them all at once.

Im sorta seeing the same issues here with the reviews.

[Jaunty]

Yeh balancing this was my main concern for sure. I didn't know if they could pull it off was just gonna assume they would make allowances and players would hopefully embrace the chaos.

[Blackheart]

I played a bit of the technical alpha, and while I found the general traps felt pretty good to use, however the choices in the maps being very wide open, with very little places to build your traditional kill boxes a little off putting.

I enjoyed the damage my character did, and enjoyed how powerful traps felt. I did not enjoy running around a large map, and having very little control.

This was early on. I'm unsure if they've changed it. I'm on the fence on purchasing the game for now as a result. I think I'd be okay with the barricade restrictions, if I felt I had more corridors and such to build within. As it stood, it was spam floor and wall traps where you could, with not too much strategy beyond that.


In previous games, I felt I could modify pathing to my hearts content, there were ceilings, and various places that I could really funnel orcs through for great trap kill boxes. That seemed to go by the wayside in this iteration.

All that said, I'm open to trying it after I see any changes that grab my attention.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by Blackheart:

In previous games, I felt I could modify pathing to my hearts content, there were ceilings, and various places that I could really funnel orcs through for great trap kill boxes. That seemed to go by the wayside in this iteration.

All that said, I'm open to trying it after I see any changes that grab my attention.

I believe in the test, you got more like 12 barricades, which got raised to 16 on release and is now increased further based on how few players you have (solo gets 22, duo gets 20, three players get 18, full four still get 16).

[Jaunty]

Oh wow this sounds almost like you should have comms because the map size has made it much more strategic? This is on par with enthusiastic players of DRG..... Hmmmmm

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Ratnadhatamam:

• Fewer weapons and fewer traps than previous games?

It looks like there are no guardians this time.
OMD 1 had paladin and acher with free placement allowing to place any trap under them.
OMD 2 added dwarves.
Unchained allowed to place guardians only at keypoints, but had 19 guardians.
OMD 3 guardian platforms took up place limiting allowed tactics and were exclusive for war scenarios. The only guardian usable in regular scenarios was archer and he was nerfed so hard orc crossbows had more range.

And now, logical evolution... no guardians.

[Zouls]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Originally posted by Ratnadhatamam:

• Fewer weapons and fewer traps than previous games?

It looks like there are no guardians this time.
OMD 1 had paladin and acher with free placement allowing to place any trap under them.
OMD 2 added dwarves.
Unchained allowed to place guardians only at keypoints, but had 19 guardians.
OMD 3 guardian platforms took up place limiting allowed tactics and were exclusive for war scenarios. The only guardian usable in regular scenarios was archer and he was nerfed so hard orc crossbows had more range.

And now, logical evolution... no guardians.

they are called sentinels and they are in preset locations, often around the rift. look for a flying shield icon and you can spend 3k to buy them

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Originally posted by Butcher:

It looks like there are no guardians this time.
OMD 1 had paladin and acher with free placement allowing to place any trap under them.
OMD 2 added dwarves.
Unchained allowed to place guardians only at keypoints, but had 19 guardians.
OMD 3 guardian platforms took up place limiting allowed tactics and were exclusive for war scenarios. The only guardian usable in regular scenarios was archer and he was nerfed so hard orc crossbows had more range.

And now, logical evolution... no guardians.

they are called sentinels and they are in preset locations, often around the rift. look for a flying shield icon and you can spend 3k to buy them

They were always called guardians. In every OMD including Unchained.