Traps

[Jujicof]

I hope as im seeing that most of this is an open large area they arent making a just hack and slash with a hint of traps, becuse satisfaction in these games is to make a killspot so good you dont need to get involved personally anymore. me and my friend love OMD but yeac concern is big open maps where youre the main source of damage...

[TimeMaster]

It's just like the previous ones, you can choose to be very active with your hero/weapons/trinkets or not as much, comes down to playstyle.

Traps will always do most of the work, just like in the previous games unless you are spawn killing the orcs with your hero at the gates.

[Jujicof]

Originally posted by TimeMaster:

It's just like the previous ones, you can choose to be very active with your hero/weapons/trinkets or not as much, comes down to playstyle.

Traps will always do most of the work, just like in the previous games unless you are spawn killing the orcs with your hero at the gates.

ye, id like that, i might be a bit pesimistic becuse i mostly just saw big open areas so i got worried that they might forsake more linear maps in favor of more slashing and emphesis on heroes

[Pretoryan]

This one definitely seems to have more of an emphasis on the "hero shooter" part of the game, which is a real shame. I really hope they have not abandoned the part of the formula that made this game kinda have it's own genre, and that's the 3rd person Tower/Trap defense building.

[Ocea]

yeah, trying to get them out of the 'big open areas' and into the 'tight chokes' is going to be a large part of the puzzle/strategy in every map :)

[Phelix]

I've watched quite a few reviews now, and the consensus seems to be that this game is more of a third person shooter with some occasional trap play. The levels are too big and open, and there isn't many areas to create a proper killbox. And it's apparently too grindy to unlock stuff and not a very good solo experience.

I'm expecting this to be a mixed game when it comes out. I'm seriously having second thoughts about getting it.

[panzerkampfwag0n]

Originally posted by Phelix:

I've watched quite a few reviews now, and the consensus seems to be that this game is more of a third person shooter with some occasional trap play. The levels are too big and open, and there isn't many areas to create a proper killbox. And it's apparently too grindy to unlock stuff and not a very good solo experience.

I'm expecting this to be a mixed game when it comes out. I'm seriously having second thoughts about getting it.

That's what I'm seeing also...either all these early access streamers are just playing this like a third person shooter or there really doesn't seem to be proper kill box areas to funnel them into.

[Jujicof]

Originally posted by Ocea:

yeah, trying to get them out of the 'big open areas' and into the 'tight chokes' is going to be a large part of the puzzle/strategy in every map :)

i wish it was so but i doubt it would be optimal, im thinking it would probably be expensive to set up and in the end you the hero would be the main defence again.

i havent seen anything new about the game yet but i will, altho it seems like what i was hoping wouldnt be, its going in that direction

[Fungus]

I seriously don't understand the seemingly endless confusion around the 'large maps' and 'limited kill boxes'. It's not that complicated. Playing co-op with multiple team mates ? Go spread out and enjoy the big maps hunting. Take a quadrant each, take a gate each. Playing solo ? then stick closer to the rift and build your funnel there - now it's a small map! There's enough barricades for a solo player to block and create a single lane to the rift and spam your traps.

Like kill boxes ? Well guess what ? there's plenty of kill box spots - including near rifts or away from rifts - your choice where you set up.

[TestingBay.]

Regarding sources of damage and scaling, this has been my experience :
Early game - You can kill however you want, everything is strong.
Mid game - Traps will outweigh most of your War Mage damage.
Late game - Sentinels outweigh ALL damage, with War Mage damage being the worst scaling and mostly for whittling down priority targets.

I think most of the 'confusion' is around how the game is 'Scramble but every map is a War Scenario', especially when the game director himself said he didn't like War Scenarios. Everything is 'big' and 'open' and 'mostly outdoor' so it feels like 'Orcs Must March', and the (constantly being revised) barricade limitation and excessive downtime simply make the game less enjoyable.
No one likes having to put in more effort for less satisfaction, or have that satisfaction largely tied to RNG thread rolls in a 'skill-based' game. I believe these gaping flaws in the design need to be addressed before the reviews can shoot up, but as it stands now the game is doing worse than previous titles in both player retention and concurrent users. It has a lot of potential and I hope the updates and changes will lead to better first impressions and sales going forward.

The argument going around that "you're not having fun because you're not playing the game correctly" is a horrible one. The devs would never say something like that because skill-shaming and playstyle-shaming will unquestionably drive people away from the game.
The best way to react to people's issues and concerns is to acknowledge them and help them articulate it in a way that can become constructive feedback and then just leave it to the devs to discern what is most important, and hope it gets addressed and adapted into the next balance patches. This way, the game gets better and people are more inclined to stay and play because they feel heard.

[Jujicof]

Originally posted by TestingBay.:

Regarding sources of damage and scaling, this has been my experience :
Early game - You can kill however you want, everything is strong.
Mid game - Traps will outweigh most of your War Mage damage.
Late game - Sentinels outweigh ALL damage, with War Mage damage being the worst scaling and mostly for whittling down priority targets.

I think most of the 'confusion' is around how the game is 'Scramble but every map is a War Scenario', especially when the game director himself said he didn't like War Scenarios. Everything is 'big' and 'open' and 'mostly outdoor' so it feels like 'Orcs Must March', and the (constantly being revised) barricade limitation and excessive downtime simply make the game less enjoyable.
No one likes having to put in more effort for less satisfaction, or have that satisfaction largely tied to RNG thread rolls in a 'skill-based' game. I believe these gaping flaws in the design need to be addressed before the reviews can shoot up, but as it stands now the game is doing worse than previous titles in both player retention and concurrent users. It has a lot of potential and I hope the updates and changes will lead to better first impressions and sales going forward.

The argument going around that "you're not having fun because you're not playing the game correctly" is a horrible one. The devs would never say something like that because skill-shaming and playstyle-shaming will unquestionably drive people away from the game.
The best way to react to people's issues and concerns is to acknowledge them and help them articulate it in a way that can become constructive feedback and then just leave it to the devs to discern what is most important, and hope it gets addressed and adapted into the next balance patches. This way, the game gets better and people are more inclined to stay and play because they feel heard.

Btw thank you, you explained things, put my thoughts and feeling on paper very well, and afterthought was well said

[Zouls]

Yet you just have to accept that first off, you can be objectively wrong, like testingbay

some games are just not made for you, its not "playstyle shaming" its being forced to the reality that you are not always right and a game is not always right for you.

but all this endless complaining worked so congrats, we are getting purchasable barricades, i cant wait to see the steam hub rage about how the game is even more impossible because they waste 40k on barricades and nothing on traps lol.

even on mission 10 your traps are gonna do most of your damage, not you, but you need to stagger enemies.

but you arent playing on those high missions first so if you want to only use traps then you get to extremely high missions anyways

[Metalshock]

Originally posted by Zouls:

some games are just not made for you,
but all this endless complaining worked so congrats, we are getting purchasable barricades, i cant wait to see the steam hub rage about how the game is even more impossible because they waste 40k on barricades and nothing on traps lol.

Could I get a link to where they said that? I'm curious about it. I'm personally conflicted on the barricade issue, as I've had games where it's worked like a charm and where it hasn't and I've been forced to compromise. I'd like to know more.

[Zouls]

Originally posted by Metalshock:

Originally posted by Zouls:

some games are just not made for you,
but all this endless complaining worked so congrats, we are getting purchasable barricades, i cant wait to see the steam hub rage about how the game is even more impossible because they waste 40k on barricades and nothing on traps lol.

Could I get a link to where they said that? I'm curious about it. I'm personally conflicted on the barricade issue, as I've had games where it's worked like a charm and where it hasn't and I've been forced to compromise. I'd like to know more.

its on discord, they have been working all week on it and have been pretty open about it cause the devs actually talk alot on discord.

cant give you a specific one but if it comes out today you will know.

from what has been said its a blue barricade trap that takes up a trap slot, it costs 4k upgraded, has 5x as much hp as a normal barricade and boosts the damage of traps around it.

but the patch is meant to rebalance like every trap and enemy hp and multiple threads so its going to be a complete remix of balance.

[Metalshock]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Originally posted by Metalshock:

Could I get a link to where they said that? I'm curious about it. I'm personally conflicted on the barricade issue, as I've had games where it's worked like a charm and where it hasn't and I've been forced to compromise. I'd like to know more.

its on discord, they have been working all week on it and have been pretty open about it cause the devs actually talk alot on discord.

cant give you a specific one but if it comes out today you will know.

from what has been said its a blue barricade trap that takes up a trap slot, it costs 4k upgraded, has 5x as much hp as a normal barricade and boosts the damage of traps around it.

but the patch is meant to rebalance like every trap and enemy hp and multiple threads so its going to be a complete remix of balance.

Neat. I imagine I'll be the one who picks it up for my squad; my choices in traps aren't cheap but very team-practical. Molten gold traps, Briars for easy and (relatively) free hallway coverage, etc. An expensive but unlimited barracade fits right into that.

Thanks for telling me, though. Appreciated.

[Jujicof]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Yet you just have to accept that first off, you can be objectively wrong, like testingbay

some games are just not made for you, its not "playstyle shaming" its being forced to the reality that you are not always right and a game is not always right for you.

they waste 40k on barricades and nothing on traps lol.

i wont do much arguing and i appreciate that you came in with some facts, id just like to say that testingbay isn't objectively wrong as you aren't ether and you're right it doesn't need to be "playstyle shaming" untill you start dubbling down on takes against someones playstile

i also did say its prob gonna end up like :

Originally posted by Jujicof:

im thinking it would probably be expensive to set up and in the end you the hero would be the main defence again.

i do get you're saying in the end traps would do most damage and its true to some extent.

i wanted to respond and im sorry for putting is this way, but it sounded like you were condemning us for not falling in line with their game direction and accepting that becuse it is now a "reality"

but what this is about is that they made games that drew the audience for specific genre and gameplay that they are now straying away from
that might not be the right way to express it but

When you board a boat heading to x destination and see it turn, its concerning. You might say im entitled or not accepting "reality", im expecting getting to x destination. The boat isnt mine so i should just accept it, but i bought the ticket...

:P ok ♥♥♥♥♥♥ analogy aside i know at least 4 people personally that wouldnt play the game if it was more open combat. for instance most core stones i saw were a stone in a big open area where you surround it with barricades and then make your funnel of floor traps

but most fun moments were where you could use floor, wall and celling traps in combination to make a killbox so picking apart those elements in favor of open rooms, holding/presing left click and then one of your aoe abilitys is for what reason? i get from marketing side they can make more and sell characters, skins and trinkets, go for the mmo route with matchmaking, branch to more communitys. it comes down to "i hope it works out for them, but its not OMD anymore"

its a pesimistic view but that looks like "reality". so that comment kinda seems like "get over it, move on and go away" for wanting to play what you liked about the game

Big rant, i could be wrong on some of the things i said, yes typing all this out took way too long and at the and of it feels like a mental disorder xD. but i dont think im that wrong in my core opinions