Galactic Civilizations III

Galactic Civilizations III

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Imhotep Nov 18, 2017 @ 8:37pm
Does the Sentry ship command work?
Whenever I select it, it appears to do nothing and I still have to do something with the unit before I can end my turn.
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Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
courtneyme109 Nov 18, 2017 @ 8:44pm 
Sentry mode is ignored if a foreign ship is in it's sensor range
Last edited by courtneyme109; Nov 18, 2017 @ 8:44pm
Imhotep Nov 18, 2017 @ 9:26pm 
Really? It says "it will notify you when an enemy is sensor range". If it wakes up when any foreign ship is in range, then it makes it almost completely useless and broken as a game tool. If it did what it was supposed to do, it would be really useful. Instead, I have to manually check each turn along all my borders to check whether there are any enemy coming, and most of the game is spent at war with someone.. Going back to Gal Civ 2, there's always been areas of this game with needless micro-management, which Crusade appears to have attempted to redress. A functioning Sentry command would save a lot of tedious unecessary work by the player and should be implemented as soon as possible.
courtneyme109 Nov 18, 2017 @ 11:26pm 
When sentry mode is selected, it essentially goes to sleep. It awakens when a foreign ship is in sensor range - alerting you with command options. It functions correctly.

Last edited by courtneyme109; Nov 18, 2017 @ 11:27pm
bjparker46 Nov 19, 2017 @ 3:59am 
Guard lets them stay asleep until you need them I believe.
Problem Solver Nov 19, 2017 @ 4:05am 
Sentry mode is good when you are at war, keeps unnoticed enemies from sneaking past you by waking up. otherwise put them in guard mode until war starts
abonamente Nov 19, 2017 @ 7:39am 
Originally posted by Imhotep:
A functioning Sentry command would save a lot of tedious unecessary work by the player and should be implemented as soon as possible.
I agree, and I expressed the same opinion in the past, but I don't believe it will be ever implemented.

1. It is but one of the many things that break with the size of the map, so, if there was a sudden interest in fixing the gameplay on such maps - what to repair first? Priorities...

2. Not having such function in game is not game-breaking. Only... very inconvenient... On certain maps... If the stats on Metaverse are any indication, 4/5 of the games are played on up to Huge - probably most players will never use it, never miss it, most of them don't even know there was an attempt to implement it. I think the stats are wrong, because I know I am not the only one who almost never finish my games on Excesssive, and I don't think they account for these games. Nevertheless, that, I guess, lowers its priority.

3. But more importantly, It isn't one of the things that could be fixed easily, so, I guess, addressing it has a really, really low priority.

So, to simplify things - there is no Sentry stance now, I think we all can agree on that. If you were to implement such function, how would it work? Let's start with the basics.
- How do you define one unit's line of sight? Because you have starbases, colonies, sensor boats, sensor stations or sensor command ships, sharing or overlapping their line of sight with the fleet or other neighboring units. On purpose. You create your own custom ships, to do exactly that. Should not alert a military unit without sensors, stationed at a long-range sensors starbase?
- Perhaps, you would like to add the unit's speed to the base of calculations. A sentry would be alerted only by the sighted enemy ships (doesn't matter who sees them) entering that unit's moves/turn limit. But that would make a mess of the sensors units (where you sacrifice speed, or range, or both, to add sensors). Should not alert a sensors boat that saw an enemy ship, if that ship is beyond its reach that turn?
- How about the units you sent to a certain destination, then changed their stance to Sentry? They just detected an enemy ship 20 hexes away, but they have only 2 moves left. Do they go to sleep?

And so on. It is easy to think the Sentry stance for units with quite similar, fixed speed and line of sight. But in this game the sensors and engines are just equipment, and you may create units with 5 and units with 50 sensors range. You may create units with speed of 5 or 50 moves/turn, regardless the sensors' range. Say you managed to establish the base behaviour for a sentry, but the range of these values is crazy. What would be a good compromise, to make everybody happy? And say you did that too - something like 'a unit becomes active if an enemy unit has been detected x tiles away from it'. But what would be a 'generally good x tiles distance' from the enemy units? Because, again - you may play on Small, where 30 tiles would be too long, or Ludicrous, where it might be too short. Also, early game a 20 tiles warning might be enough, but late game, when war fleets move 100 tiles/turn, would be useless.

To implement a Sentry mechanic in this game requires a novel approach (don't know, maybe make it or limit it to a ship role) and I hope we'll have that, but I won't hold my breath.
Last edited by abonamente; Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:16am
Horus Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:24am 
Sentry does work. I like to pack a cargo with sensors and put it at strategic points, put it on sentry, and voilà, alarm system.
Last edited by Horus; Nov 19, 2017 @ 8:24am
Imhotep Nov 19, 2017 @ 9:58am 
Originally posted by sexybeastrocks:
When sentry mode is selected, it essentially goes to sleep. It awakens when a foreign ship is in sensor range - alerting you with command options. It functions correctly.
The description says it awakens when an enemy ship is in range, not a foreign ship, so it's not working correctly.

Originally posted by abonamente:
I agree, and I expressed the same opinion in the past, but I don't believe it will be ever implemented.
...

I don't see why this would be difficult to implement - when an enemy ship appears in its sensor range, the unit should wake up. I think Gal Civ II had a sentry function and I don't recall it not working.
Horus Nov 19, 2017 @ 10:59am 
Originally posted by Imhotep:
Originally posted by sexybeastrocks:
When sentry mode is selected, it essentially goes to sleep. It awakens when a foreign ship is in sensor range - alerting you with command options. It functions correctly.
The description says it awakens when an enemy ship is in range, not a foreign ship, so it's not working correctly.

Originally posted by abonamente:
I agree, and I expressed the same opinion in the past, but I don't believe it will be ever implemented.
...

I don't see why this would be difficult to implement - when an enemy ship appears in its sensor range, the unit should wake up. I think Gal Civ II had a sentry function and I don't recall it not working.

True! FOREIGN ship, you are quite right. Freaking Stardock, saying one thing and doing another.

Yeah it needs to be ENEMY ships. Sigh.
abonamente Nov 19, 2017 @ 3:58pm 
Originally posted by Imhotep:
Originally posted by abonamente:
I agree, and I expressed the same opinion in the past, but I don't believe it will be ever implemented.
...

I don't see why this would be difficult to implement - when an enemy ship appears in its sensor range, the unit should wake up. I think Gal Civ II had a sentry function and I don't recall it not working.
Different games, different mechanics. Won't work. Explained.

Further clarification.

Your suggestion:
- I have 2 ships, 200 hexes apart. One has 5 hexes line of sight, the other, my sensor surveillance station, 200. An enemy ship appears between my 2 ships, 6 hexes from the first one, which, although in danger, WON'T wake up. Instead, my second ship, almost 200 hexes away, WAKES UP. First ship dies, life is a ♥♥♥♥♥.

My review:
- Thumb down, rage-quit,
Imhotep Nov 19, 2017 @ 4:14pm 
Originally posted by abonamente:
Originally posted by Imhotep:

I don't see why this would be difficult to implement - when an enemy ship appears in its sensor range, the unit should wake up. I think Gal Civ II had a sentry function and I don't recall it not working.
Different games, different mechanics. Won't work. Explained.

Further clarification.

Your suggestion:
- I have 2 ships, 200 hexes apart. One has 5 hexes line of sight, the other, my sensor surveillance station, 200. An enemy ship appears between my 2 ships, 6 hexes from the first one, which, although in danger, WON'T wake up. Instead, my second ship, almost 200 hexes away, WAKES UP. First ship dies, life is a ♥♥♥♥♥.

My review:
- Thumb down, rage-quit,
If the surveillance ship wakes up, then you will know the other ship is in danger.
Airmaster Nov 19, 2017 @ 7:00pm 
Originally posted by Imhotep:
Originally posted by abonamente:
Different games, different mechanics. Won't work. Explained.

Further clarification.

Your suggestion:
- I have 2 ships, 200 hexes apart. One has 5 hexes line of sight, the other, my sensor surveillance station, 200. An enemy ship appears between my 2 ships, 6 hexes from the first one, which, although in danger, WON'T wake up. Instead, my second ship, almost 200 hexes away, WAKES UP. First ship dies, life is a ♥♥♥♥♥.

My review:
- Thumb down, rage-quit,
If the surveillance ship wakes up, then you will know the other ship is in danger.
Yet proves the command works but by the time you rally ships to intervene your first ship is fubar.
Last edited by Airmaster; Nov 19, 2017 @ 7:01pm
Imhotep Nov 19, 2017 @ 7:38pm 
Originally posted by Airmaster:
Originally posted by Imhotep:
If the surveillance ship wakes up, then you will know the other ship is in danger.
Yet proves the command works but by the time you rally ships to intervene your first ship is fubar.
Sensor barges are placed at the edge of one's empire where attacks are expected. One will be at war with some civs for large parts of the game, and the attacks can be low-intensity with a fleet or two every dozen or so turns. Even early in the game, sensor barges have sensor range of ten hexes, so if placed correctly, they will spot enemy danger well before other ships are put in jeopardy. There are no first ships that are fubar.
Airmaster Nov 19, 2017 @ 7:58pm 
Originally posted by Imhotep:
Originally posted by Airmaster:
Yet proves the command works but by the time you rally ships to intervene your first ship is fubar.
Sensor barges are placed at the edge of one's empire where attacks are expected. One will be at war with some civs for large parts of the game, and the attacks can be low-intensity with a fleet or two every dozen or so turns. Even early in the game, sensor barges have sensor range of ten hexes, so if placed correctly, they will spot enemy danger well before other ships are put in jeopardy. There are no first ships that are fubar.

Never mind, you already answered this in an earlier comment..
abonamente Nov 20, 2017 @ 5:57am 
That was a simple example, to illustrate the issue, but you really don't get the idea: MAYBE IN YOUR GAMES (this is the idea) most of your ships have (always) a similar speed, range, or sensor range, so the system, as proven in other such games (the Civilization series, for instance), with fixed line of sight and movement, almost identical and never changing during the game, will work.

GC3 does NOT work like this. In MY GAMES, for example, on my preferred maps, and depending on the stage of the game (turn 1 or turn 300), this system will be more of an annoyance than something useful. Most of the time I am at war. So, some of my sensor ships (sensor range like 30 early game, or 100 mid-game) will be always active (so I'll change Sentry to Guard very quickly), while the ones without sensors, which could benefit from a detection grid and the auto-activate thing, won't. How is the Sentry thing useful in this case?

Also, I mentioned the starbases before (another example) - my military starbases have a decent detection radius. But a fleet without sensors, stationed inside or nearby, will never become active, even if a hundred transport ships will pass by, because although detected, they didn't enter its OWN sensor range. Now, at least, with shared lines of sight, everything becomes active and I am forced to review each case. Which is tedious, but safer. I don't want to trade a better principle for a lesser one. Do you?

You assume that everybody plays like you, and what works for you should work for everyone else. But this is a highly customizable game, and the game mechanics should work for everybody, not only a select few. And this makes any adjustment of rules complicated.
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Date Posted: Nov 18, 2017 @ 8:37pm
Posts: 25