Well I got to stop playing the sundren campaign

[red255]

Due to how much Sundren's Rogue class sucks, and The Dreadnought class is unbalanced.

Playing the campaign causes me to fantasize having the guy who came up with the dreadnought class in a room and with an assortment of torture implements to exact my revenge.

Sundren they went out of their way to make terrible. She;s got two worthless summons and a bunch of global spells that keep getting disjuncted because she's up against 6 AI who love disjuncting all her spells and attacking her cities. Because final mission.

If I'm going to need to take them out quickly, reveal the quest targets or don't put them on the far side of the map. I could do this map. but thats not the point. I'm struck by how much you made sundren and the rogue class in general suck, and how overpowered you made the dreadnought class.

Rogue, its got no good summons, its unique units are situational, and class bonuses apply to units that suck.

the dreadnought gets the flame tank which is stupidly broken doing more damage than a red dragon with no cooldown. just what the hell here man?

then we got the spy drone which is about as cheap as the other classes scouts except it explodes to kill pretty much anything when massed.

and we got the golemns which are fine, they are pretty nasty but for a late unit they are about as nasty as they should be, a little too durable because they are machines but within tolerances.

and you got the juggernaut, which weighs in at 130 HP or so, and does 60 damage at very long range and you need to close to short range and be chewed up by golemns and whatnot to deal with them.

Red dragons with shadow form ideally except that gets dispelled whenever you cast it because, can't have the hero spending a turn and lots of mana and have the spel actually DO anything.

But nothing sundren typically gets access to.

You give her fricking sabotage, oh look a melee skill that does 15 phy 15 fire thats resisted heavily. Its worse than a basic melee attack, have it at least add a status to chance to disable the machine for a few rounds or something. IF I;m close enough and IF I roll high I might hurt a cannon, but everything else is too much damage and durability.

and if I do kill something? He can bring it right back with a spell.

anyways, please fix. its way too frustrating.

My solution for balance aspect, uh.

REDUCE Machine durability, and damage obv.

SABOTAGE is a massive hit damage 1x instead of a 3x. same overall damage. and given to units that don't have stubby little legs, maybe give them sprint?

Give sundren an anti machine spell that damages and disables machines.

give everyone a mass fire resist spell. or something. maybe a passive bonus from walls.

The succubus, the bard, the assasin, make sense for the class, the giant demon does not.

for a 'big thing' it kinda sucks for the 64 or whatever HP. I'm not sure what the point of it is, I feel you felt she was weak and gave her this horrible thing to try and fix that. GIve it to her as like a summon or something. maybe a smaller ghost form instead. and give her actually something decent, probably take the assasin and give him proper powerups as her heavy hitter. shoots poison darts, kickass melee attack, concealment, back stab, chance to be missed. Standard rogue stuff.

oh and probably a trap spell, maybe something to mess with army mobility.

For the Dreadnought. oh god. I barely know where to start here.

Flame tank, damage cut to 14, 1 turn cooldown on flame. probably cut cost, unit HP to 40, allow critical hits to take out its fuel tank and explode all over everything, or a chance to explode when attacking.

yeah give them all a chance to misfire. damn new fangled machines.

throw in a mainance unit engineer type guy, mostly support unit, repairs machines, reduces misfires, reloads weapons. something vulnerable we can take out to get rid of those attacks since its pretty insane to go thru 130 HP to get thru it, you need like 2-3 dragons chewing on a juggernaut for a couple turns.

you compare it to the theocrats 32 upkeep machine which has 100 hp. and no real area attacks except the one off situational one. So the juggernaut does ALOT more damage and HP and durability. bring it more in line with that we are looking at like 80 HP or lose the area damage. would think we have a LONG range shot ball, and a short range fire area ball. both need to take a turn to load. where he cannot attack, and has to actually load the shot. and probably make them need 3 action to use.

but when he can just bring them back at a % of their HP, they shouldn't have more than 15 HP. so either cut the %, cut the HP, or just make it 15 HP.

anyways yeah, I can't play anymore because the lack of balance makes me too angry and homicidal. I really hope you can fix this.

Theocrat is great, Druid is about as strong as you want a stong class to be. Haven't played as the other 2 classes but the AI isn't abusing the broken-ness of them so its not as urgent to fix.

But the dreadnought makes the game unplayable. and rogue is horrible too and making the final campaign force you to play a class that sucks vs 6 races including 2 that are broken....is a bit much.

and they aren't only slightly broken, they do about twice as much damage and tank twice as much hits as they should. you also gave him tons of starting cash mines in his area because why not. but thats fine, thats just the map, this is the game issue.

[Rhedd]

You really need to play as/against Dreadnoughts OUTSIDE the campaign before you make balance suggestions.

I may or may not disagree with your opinions, but you can't judge balance because you got frustrated in the last (obviously hardest) mission of a campaign where you know the odds become increasingly stacked against you.

Heck, you should at least play the other campaign and see how frustrating the final missions are (or are not) as the Dreadnought character before making sweeping statements.

[Groff]

Originally posted by red255:

Rhedd, care to answer a mildly personal question?

do people tell you to shut the f*** alot? like ALOT. Or do they just beat you?

The flame tank's durability is like paper mache- glass cannon unit- and the spy drones can easily be picked off from range and are extremely weak as well, unless you are being swarned by cannon fodder divisions which in that case you can set off a chain explosion if they are clustered together also both these machines explode and are unreviveable because of it so they have their drawbacks there, golems-seige wall breakers- weak things try to attack anything involving lightning spells and they just get torn apart same for most machines that is their weakness, as for the other machines namely Cannons and Juggurnauts -mostly Juggurnauts- they are more durable and actually have cool downs on their abilities which means to be efficient they need the engineers, if you see an engineer that should be your priority if either of those two machines are up, it is also good when fighting the Juggurnauts to stay close to other enemy units so they are forced to hurt their frirends most of the Juggurnauts abilities are aoe and are indiscriminate so they are durable but like a sledge hammer when you need a butter knife.

[MattStriker]

You know, I had a fairly long, in-depth post planned adressing and largely disproving your various point, but after this...

Originally posted by red255:

Rhedd, care to answer a mildly personal question?

do people tell you to shut the f*** alot? like ALOT. Or do they just beat you?

...eh, you're not worth the effort.

[AnemoneMeer]

*sighs*

I'll readily admit Rogue is not the best class to start on. It's one of the more technical, skill intensive classes.

That being said, Rogue is one of the best classes in the game for the sheer wealth of options it has at any one time, and how deadly its units can be.

Sabotage junks machines like nobodies business, able to swing 90+ in a turn if you use quickdash with it and run to your movement's edge with sprint. That clears everything but a juggernaut in ONE pass from ONE unit, that costs 45 gold. It also instantly clears walls, making defensive tactics hell. This coming from a unit who is literally the most massable thing in the game.

Elven bards are imo, top three for best unit in the game. They enter play early, are a flat upgrade to an already powerful unit, come with recruiting and team buffing skills, high stats, and flat obsolete units people were already saying were too good.

Assassins swing for ungodly levels of damage, and count as a T2 unit. They're T2's who can hit for more than T3's, and with Assassin's Strike, can alpha for more than T4's.

Shadow Stalkers are situational units, who's situation happens to be forcing the enemy to mass elemental damage units, so you can countermass highly resistant to elemental damage units. Any sort of physical damage literally bounces harmlessly off a shadow stalker, as they have and gain more eHP vs phys than any other unit in the game.

Rogue is a very technical class, that rewards superior skill and ability with the fastest army generation in the game, and near attrionless warfare. You'll be gaining units from battle faster than you can lose them, and you have amazing tools at your disposal to solve problems, if you can see them coming and build counters.

As far as dreadnoughts go.

They are the defacto worst attrition class in the game by a mile. Their army stacks are literally forced to rely on crappy T1 units if they want to be able to recover at all, which massively cuts down on their fighting strength.

They are painfully reliant on abilities that have cooldowns.

Their scout is slower than every other scout in the game, and its only combat purpose is DYING. Do you have any idea how many scouts you get to pop from a dreadnought inside their own army?

Their actual combat spells are, with few exceptions, terrible, and they are a very mana intensive class due to their units high cost demanding mana fuel cells.

Dreadnought is a very straight forward class, but it is hardly the strongest class. The best thing it has going for it is mass muskets atm, which is a unit you didn't even consider. Flame tanks are friendly fire incarnate, and easily preyed upon by a number of units. One dwarven firstborn can quite literally singlehandedly kill 6 flametanks.

[Leb]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=247733663

[AnemoneMeer]

Post. Have someone link my guide very next post.

I feel flattered ^^.

[red255]

thank you. Yeah I was enjoying bards, but they aren;t very good vs machines. they are pretty good as longbowmen with charm though.

will probably try to swing the final campaign again at some point after reading your guide.

I had dealt with the west side mainly with a team of 6 heroes and got to my center after being over run by way too many dreadnoughts and getting pissed at the amount of dread nought spam that I can't seem to stem the flow of. and was upset that they do 60 damage to units behind walls Came back and tried to retake my cities and he just had too many dreadnaughts.

[С Г エ χ]

Dreadnoughts are easily the best late game class, only really challenged by maybe swarms of manticore riders, or maybe if you somehow let archdruids or sorcs build up stacks of T4 units.

Thier ♥♥♥♥ early game is also negated by the fact that they're in a campaign. Also I hardly see how having cheap, effective engineers is somehow a negative.

[MattStriker]

Engineers are incredibly squishy and losing them ruins the Dreadnought's entire gameplan. They're literally the weakest link in their war machine. They go down to one solid melee hit from T2 or better, and once their gone the Dreadnought's army basically loses half its damage-per-turn output and the ability to recover from damage. Attrition is a ♥♥♥♥♥ for Dreadnoughts.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Post. Have someone link my guide very next post.

I feel flattered ^^.

You should be flattered. Your stuff is very, very good!

[red255]

apparently I'll look at scoundrels again, mass them and use them to raid the machines. I used 4 vs 2 boats, (militia) and they seemed to work better than I imagined, and this is suicide troops to ATTACK with.

Its still impossible to defend which is what I'd PREFER to do when faced with 6 to 1 odds but I understand the difference, and looking at the numbers I can probably still make it work.

[Cougarific]

Originally posted by red255:

do people tell you to shut the f*** alot?

Asked the guy who had just posted a 30 paragraph rant.

[red255]

the rant helped, your post did not.

[red255]

are you going to bump this every two days to post useless insults? Its not helping the situation. It never helps the situation.

[idioch]

Yeah slightly confused, aren't Rogues good at dealing with ranged units??? Really not that hard of a class to play.

PS. OP please your first post is a eye sore, not for me to tell you how to write things up I suppose but making everything it's own paragraph.

PSS: Also machines don't regen health like other units, so unless they run back to a city to heal up with a master guild. Well a dreadnought has to rely on other units/spells to keep a flame tank or other machine alive. Early game this can be seen as a pretty big disadvantage to them.