Wingsuit courses tips

[avgzone]

title.

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by Warc1:

Originally posted by Amplifier:

this is wrong.

It's not wrong considering you gave a very detailed explanattion on exactly why it works. Managing your speed allows you to more easily make tight maneuvers of which there are many.

The OP is asking for help and you're providing nothing beyond "get gud". Yes, you can five gear all of the courses without braking, but on many courses its much harder. For example, I would fail the first ring after the plunge at the 3/4 mark of Mountain Marathon more often than I would nail it at full speed. With braking just before, I can nail it ten times in a row.

There is no right way to 5 gear a course if all you want is the achievement. That's why I pointed the OP to a post with 6 diffierent techniques that can be used at the reader's discretion. Many allow additional points to compensate for missed center rings for those that don't have the time to become a wingsuit expert.

braking only works in the situation you gave since there is a high altitude for you to rely on to fall after the brake. If you wingbraked near the ground (which many courses force you to fly against) , you will not make it. And secondly, using it too much will make you too reliant on it, which dimishes on the flow.
At normal wingsuit speed, you can pretty much make sharp turns quite easily. Wingsuit braking only makes it harder, by completely destroying on speed. And note, I'm speaking only on flight on a mostly horizontal plane.

The OP is asking for help and you're providing nothing beyond "get gud".

you must be reading the wrong comment then. I literally gave the answer to most wingsuit challenges. U-turning is as good as cheating but it's the best solution no one can deny. You also need u-turns anyway, for certain courses that have multiple routes.

[Warc1]

Originally posted by Amplifier:

braking only works in the situation you gave since there is a high altitude for you to rely on to fall after the brake. If you wingbraked near the ground (which many courses force you to fly against) , you will not make it.

I'm inferring you don't have much experience with braking. When you hit the brakes, you actually gain altitude so it doesn't drop you into the ground. I've used it successfully in many places where I was 1m above the terrain.

using it too much will make you too reliant on it, which dimishes on the flow.

Agreed. With the exceptions of maintaining focus and doing research, the remaining four wingsuiting techniques in my linked post all require judgement and balance. However, read what I said above. I never said brake everywhere. I said, "Use your brakes to keep your speed manageable." If you go into the post I linked, you will see that braking is recommended for "fast mountain courses", where it is extremely effective. I only raised it because the OP specifically stated he had difficulty turning, which as you posted, can be the result of excessive speed. You said it is useless, yet there are plenty of examples where it works.

At normal wingsuit speed, you can pretty much make sharp turns quite easily

But at high speed, you can't. See above about balance and judgement.

I literally gave the answer to most wingsuit challenges. U-turning is as good as cheating but it's the best solution no one can deny. You also need u-turns anyway, for certain courses that have multiple routes.

I can deny it. This absolutely will not work as an overall strategy for a noob. Your criteria, "most wingsuit challenges", cannot accommodate U-turns to recover from missed targets. That's because you need two factors for this to work - sufficient elevation differential between targets and sufficient course width. Without elevation differential, U-turns lose too much altitude and cause you to either miss the target or crash into the ground. Without course width, you will either crash into latteral terrain and obstacles, or time out the 10 second limit for departing the invisible course bounds. The vast majority of targets within wingsuit courses do not meet both criteria.

But here's the salient point about U-turning. The net result of U-turns is that they reduce your speed and restore control. Guess what does that more effectively...braking. With braking, you can control exactly how much speed to scrub off which U-turns cannot. Braking has no risk of going out of bounds where U-turns have a high risk.

There is only one means to mitigate the elevation loss and bounds issue with U-turns and that is to use grappling and reeling in and here's what you say about that: "grapple which can easily put you off-course." It's anything but a noob technique, and as with U-turns, extremely limited in opportunities for application.

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by Warc1:

I'm inferring you don't have much experience with braking. When you hit the brakes, you actually gain altitude so it doesn't drop you into the ground. I've used it successfully in many places where I was 1m above the terrain.

it doesn't but the loss of speed will. If you want to get to the next target ahead of you, the loss of speed will be sufficient.

But at high speed, you can't. See above about balance and judgement.

nope, you still can. Maxime Tour for instance, required you to make a sharp turn around a large tree near the train tracks will you're alrdy zooming at full speed. Totally possible, because the TURN itself will reduce your speed siginificantly.

I can deny it. This absolutely will not work as an overall strategy for a noob. Your criteria, "most wingsuit challenges", cannot accommodate U-turns to recover from missed targets. That's because you need two factors for this to work - sufficient elevation differential between targets and sufficient course width. Without elevation differential, U-turns lose too much altitude and cause you to either miss the target or crash into the ground. Without course width, you will either crash into latteral terrain and obstacles, or time out the 10 second limit for departing the invisible course bounds. The vast majority of targets within wingsuit courses do not meet both criteria.

nope, you don't need it. Do you know how to climb with the wingsuit? You know, basically flying everywhere, across any terrain and flyng forever? If you do, then you wouldn't be saying that.
Monte Dragon course for instance, required you to take several branching routes, out of which only one or two actually give you enough points for 5 gears. Doesnt matter if you manage to red circle everything in your route.
You can play the system by insntead U-turning and snatching cirles from other routes. i've easily u-turned to go UPHILL and go through red circles UPHILL and even circles up there above me in the sky just by U-turning. Use the grappling hook to ppull yourself up and you can go up any freakin' terrain and go back down and keep u-turning forever. It's not hard. I'd be surprised if you don't know how to do this.

Secondly, there's no two circles in this whole game which are so close together you cant u-turn between. The only places you can;'t U-turn is up in the skies where there's nothing to grapple up against (again, using the Monte Dragon example, at the beginning moment you leave the helicopter)

[Amplifier]

lastly, to clarify, maybe I gave the wrong impression when I said wingsuit brakes are usleess. I meant they're not needed at all if you know how to fly the proper way. Otherwise I'd have use it at least once in any winggsuit course (which I didnt and neither do you).

But if you want to rely on it, sure go ahead. I may be a detractor here but certainly using wingsuit breaks is not what is intended to be. Same for U-turning. It can help noobs but it wont give them that full experience of how to really fly the wingsuit. If you watch my other sutnt videos and that of other people they never use it at all anyway. It's frowned upon.

[Warc1]

I'll try and take this back to the original post. The only reason I've pursued this is that you have not provided any substantive guidance beyond get good, which is not what the OP asked for. Your videos are like Lewis Hamilton posting a link to his last race and saying: “Watch this to learn how to win F1 races.”

You and I are among the less than 1% that have 5 geared all wingsuit challenges. The vast majority of players either lack the time, skill or inclination to achieve that. I had the inclination, but it was a massive time sink and took hundreds of runs based on trial and error.

Once I got the achievement, I realized there were many techniques that were common to successful runs. I didn’t invent any of them, but I did recognize their significance. Had I known them earlier, I could have focused and substantially lessened the time and effort involved. That’s all that I’m trying to share.

The only alternative you’ve provided is what you call U-turns. Read my last post again. I referenced it in my very last paragraph and it is one of the techniques in my linked post, where I refer to it as looping. It’s great for maxing leaderboard scores and I have used that as one of the methods to get to the top of every single one of my group’s wingsuit scores. BTW, you don’t need to loop to 5 gear the branching courses because every one has at least one route with sufficient points.

The problem is that looping is anything but noob friendly because it relies on grappling and reeling-in. One of your posted arguments against braking is that it can force you into reeling-in to regain speed which you state will likely pull you off course. That’s in challenges where you deviate no more than 30 degrees laterally from target to target. To loop a missed target, you have to deviate 360 degrees, climb in elevation and do it so tightly you don’t go out of bounds for more than ten seconds. You think a noob will be able to do that without going off course or crashing the vast majority of times?

You’ve explicitly stated that any missed target can be recovered by looping except those at high altitude. That’s preposterous. You can certainly do it at very specific targets if you plan for it in advance and practice. I’m aware of the number of YouTube videos that demonstrate such target locations. However, recovering from a missed target is done at the last minute when you are not in full control. Expecting a noob to be able to pull off reeling-in loops at any target, at any time, and starting from any orientation is just not realistic.

I’d wager that you can’t do that with any target. I am what I consider to be proficient at wingsuiting and can cross the entire main islands by wingsuit without touching the ground. However, I'd never claim that exprience translates into the ability to loop any target at any time.

Grappling and reeling-in with the wingsuit has severe limitations compared to the parachute. If you grapple directly front of you, you will be pulled into the terrain at the grapple point. That point has to be within greatly restricted angles and distances to your side, above you or fully below you. Further, your speed must be maintained above a fairly high threshold to avoid being pulled into the grapple point. All of that can be managed if you are going cross country and have the ability to plot any course and correct in any direction. The wingsuit challenges do not give you that freedom.

To bring this back to the OP, or anyone that is looking for 5 gears without reinventing the wheel, there are many techniques that can help. I’ll post them immediately below along with a tl;dr summary at the top.

[Warc1]

Here's the full extract on wingsuit challenge tips from this linked post regarding 5 gearing all challenges.:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/225540/discussions/0/1318835718948258640/

None are silver bullets, and most can only be realized through practice. However, the amount of that practice can be greatly reduced from just trial and error. To begin with, here's the tl;dr version:

1. Focus on targets and that means more than "aim for the centre."
   
2. Minimize the number and magnitude of steering inputs and steer proactively.
   
3. Skim the ground.
   
4. Extend your time to travese the course.
   
5. Research branching paths.
   
6. Use brakes to manage speed.

And now, here's the above list explained in detail.

Wingsuit Course Challenges

These seem to be the toughest for everyone, including me. Nothing beats experience, and one of the best ways to gain it, without the drudgery of practice, is to make greater use of the Bavarium Wingsuit (BW) in regular gameplay. Even though it is powered, and the wingsuit in the challenges is not, techniques from flying the BW directly translate into challenge skills. Since you are coasting at least half of the time with the BW, you gain a high degree of control precision in unpowered flight that directly applies to any wingsuit challenge.

Beyond experience, I am aware of six effective techniques to improve your performance:

1. Always keep your gaze fixed on the next red centre ring in front of you. If you start drifting off course, don't let your eyes follow, but instead, keep focus on the next ring. It’s like driving a car in real life. If you start sliding and going in a direction that will take you off road, looking straight ahead will guarantee that you end up off road. Looking where you want to go ensures that your corrective actions are applied towards where you need to be instead of where you are headed. While you are focused on the ring immediately in front of you, do keep the next ring in your peripheral vision so you are setting up for it as you are passing through the one in front. Note that this technique applies to any race challenges with rings (land races, air races, sea races, Skyfortress).
   
   
2. Strike a balance between the scale of steering input and frequency. Small steering inputs are generally better than large since the latter can result in a feedback loop of overcorrections. Similarly, a smaller number of steering inputs is generally better than a larger number since you are more likely to remain under control with fewer inputs. Unfortunately, these two principles are contradictory. If you are only going to use a small number of steering inputs, by necessity, they must be larger in scale to navigate the required course changes. Therefore, the strategy is to find the best balance between number and scale. That comes from practice in learning the course and making controlled, proactive steering inputs in advance of course changes instead of reacting to the fact that the course has deviated from your line.
   
   
3. Stay low as you can. You gain a lot of points for ground skimming – as much as tens of thousands. As an example, there are numerous cases of two adjacent rings placed close to the ground, but the land in-between drops away. In these cases, follow the contour of the land, skimming the dropping surface, instead of flying the straight line between the two rings.
   
   
4. Make your run slower by taking longer paths. As counter intuitive as it seems, the slower the run, the more points you gain. There are two ways you can do this:
   
   
   • Fly a 360 degree loop between the second and third rings. This is only effective if you just need a few hundred points to get from four to five gears. However, it has the benefit of being easy to learn. Almost all runs start steeply and then flatten out as you proceed. At the steep start, plunge through the first two rings to gain speed, and then lift up to avoid the third ring. As soon as you are over top of the third ring, do a 360 turning maneuver and then drop into the centre of that ring to add flight time. You need enough speed to maintain sufficient altitude to hit the red centre ring after the 360.
     
     
   • Use the grapple and reeling in to infinitely loop a section of the course. This method is an order of magnitude harder to learn than just flying a 360 loop, but it has the potential to add unlimited points. It doesn't work on all courses since you have to find a section where you can grapple a loop and not go out of bounds for more than ten seconds. I’ve seldom been able to use this technique effectively because I usually crash or get timed out of bounds after one or two loops. However, you can find examples where players have made it work well on a few specific courses on YouTube.
   
   
5. Research branching courses to find the path with the most points. There are numerous challenge runs with branches that can allow alternative paths through the course. Many of the paths do not have sufficient points available to gain 5 gears, even if you ace it. If you don't want to rely on trial and error, YouTube is your best bet to find the path with the most available points.
   
   
6. Make use of the air brake on the long fast mountain courses. Speed reduces your maneuverability to the point that you cannot make some of the center rings at full speed. Braking at strategic points restores maneuverability. It was with this method that I finally was able to get a perfect ring score (every centre ring) on Mountain Marathon; the single most difficult challenge I encountered in the entire game. Just make sure you have turned off the Wingsuit Quick Close Gear Mod since that can result in the closure of your wingsuit mid-course which ends your run.

Finally, practice, practice, practice. Repetition on any given course will allow you to memorize ring placement and obstacles to determine optimal paths, locations for steering inputs and strategic braking points.

[Amplifier]

you gotta be kidding me, this isnt a blog, bro. and I'm not gonna bother reading all that. Wingsuit flying is as simple as it looks. You just made it look 10x more complex to everyone

[Warc1]

So simple less than 1% of players have 5 geared the challenges. BTW, none of the previous post was directed at you.

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by Warc1:

So simple less than 1% of players have 5 geared the challenges. BTW, none of the previous post was directed at you.

the 5 gear achievement is for all challenges, not just wingsuits. And this is a completionist achievement, meaning only people that even bother 100%ing the game would bother completing all challenges. 1% is the normal amount for most completionist achievements.

Not a good way to derive an assumption that what, 99% of players cant fly the wingsuit?
No, they just arent completionists.

[Warc1]

I thought you were done. There are stats for individual wingsuit challenges and Mountain Marathon alone was in the 1% range. Regardless, I never said or implied 99% lacked skills. I explicitly said above: "The vast majority of players either lack the time, skill or inclination to achieve..." five gears. My intent with tips is to address the first two directly and the last indirectly.. People are more inclined to undertake something if it meets their definition of a reasonable cost for reward.

[TengriBless,]

Wingsuit is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cancer, i fall everytime and my screen turns red.

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by ✠Vexling:

Wingsuit is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cancer, i fall everytime and my screen turns red.

watch me fly and you'll become a wingsuit master

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1240429119


nah.. of course not

[Amplifier]

it definitely takes practice but if you want to fly right, you should be knowing how to fly forever. As I mentioned in my very first post, just always hold S to stay afloat. Same as flying a plane. Hold S to go up, W to go down. Except unlike a plane, with a wingsuit, you're ALWAYS declining in altitude. So use your grapple.
if you know how to do this, you can go up and down whatever the hell. Like here,I just flew straight to the bottom, then flew straight up into the mountains without a single stop (except a clumsy finish near the end. I have too much ego flying straight through trees)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1224810342