Perk choices

[The Selfish Meme]

I'm aiming for 'perfect' char (10 SPECIAL, 100 skills). I'm at lvl 8 now and can't decide what to take at lvl 9 (I'll use this thread all the way to lvl 30 though).

What I have:
Black Widow
Comprehension
Educated
Entomologist
Toughness
Strong Back
Intense Training x1 (kinda a waste but no more than those skill-perks)

Short-list for lvl 9:
Commando & Gunslinger - they would be good but it's not additive, so instead of 40% hit chance you'll get 50% and not 65%. Is it really worth it?

Fortune Finder & Scrounger - more junk in containers, is it good? I have a little ammo problem but I guess it can be solved without the perk.

Iron Fist - not a big fun of Unarmed, but some say it's a killer. However, is 1 rank enough or I'll have to waste 3 perks on it to make it work?

Demolition Expert - not sure, and i don't have 50 of the skill required for it yet.

Your thoughts?

[JtDarth]

If you want 10 special and 100 skills you should be only taking skill point perks that add 15 or more in one swoop, otherwise they aren't worth the waste compared to using something like intense training.
That said, for lvl 9, you should not take Iron Fist. It adds flat damage IIRC, which isn't useful unless you plan on actually using unarmed as your main damage. Even using unarmed as your main damage, a deathclaw gauntlet is more than capable without supporting perks.

Demo expert is in the same boat as Iron fist, except it is literally only affecting grenades and mines. Unless you use a lot of grenades and mines, it's not useful. Grenades and mines are more than powerful enough to cripple anything short of a deathclaw without help anyway. There is also the issue of self damage.

Fortune finder and Scrounger both depend on your preferred weapon type and the rarity of it's ammo. Big guns and explosives users will benefit far more frome fortune finder, while people using guns and energy will benefit more from scrounger. Neither of them is strictly necessary, although they are better choices than most of your shortlist. If you plan on relying on weapons that use a rarer ammo type like .308, .44, or something like that, than they are both a good value.

Commando and gunslinger are useful if you rely really heavily on VATS, but are otherwise not worth it. My characters usually have lower endurance in F3, so I use vats and superior positioning to offset that (which, btw, is where my comments on mines and grenades come from). This makes Commando and gunslinger more useful. And keep in mind VATS isn't actually rolling between 1-100 for it's percentages, it's actual rolls are in a smaller range, I don't remember the actual range, but it's probably a 1-10 or 1-20 range.

[The Selfish Meme]

My SPECIAL now is: 7 7 7 1 7 6 7. I consider Intensive Training useless since I'll take Almost Perfect at lvl 30, then all the bobbleheads and it will be all 10-s.

Also with my current skills I've counted that I need only 62 skill points to max them all out (when I get all the bobbleheads and skill books). This means that I can max them at lvl 12 (20 skill points per lvl), but of course I'll level up faster than I collect the skill books, so I'll be able to skip a good bunch of books.

This also makes all the skillpoint-only perks also useless.

I guess I'll just go with that ammo perk for lvl 9, it's already taking too much time to think about :)

Lvls 10-11 are more sweet. Need to choose from: +5% critical, friendly animals (guess this doesn't include deathclaws, not so cool) and mysterious stranger (i took this in F4 and was pretty fun). Mr Sandman kinda sucks, and I didnt decide on night person yet (+2 PER and INT at nights).

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by John Galt:

My SPECIAL now is: 7 7 7 1 7 6 7. I consider Intensive Training useless since I'll take Almost Perfect at lvl 30, then all the bobbleheads and it will be all 10-s.

Also with my current skills I've counted that I need only 62 skill points to max them all out (when I get all the bobbleheads and skill books). This means that I can max them at lvl 12 (20 skill points per lvl), but of course I'll level up faster than I collect the skill books, so I'll be able to skip a good bunch of books.

This also makes all the skillpoint-only perks also useless.

I guess I'll just go with that ammo perk for lvl 9, it's already taking too much time to think about :)

Lvls 10-11 are more sweet. Need to choose from: +5% critical, friendly animals (guess this doesn't include deathclaws, not so cool) and mysterious stranger (i took this in F4 and was pretty fun). Mr Sandman kinda sucks, and I didnt decide on night person yet (+2 PER and INT at nights).

In that case, for level 10 and 11 you should probably take the crit chance and mysterious stranger.
Animal friend isn't really worth it, as the only things it really affects are Yao Guai, mole rats, and dogs. The occasional Yao Guai aren't much of a threat by the time you reach level 10 unless you are severely undergeared. Even then, using a mine or simply unloading on a leg will allow you to kite them. Most dogs and mole rats can be killed in one or two shots with a lowly hunting rifle, let alone something like a .44 or a Lever Action from Point Lookout.
Mr sandman is borderline useless, and night person is just bad, especially if you intend to take almost perfect anyway.
Mysterious stranger and 5% criticals are straight up damage bonuses, especially since the stranger one-shots whatever he triggers against.

[The Selfish Meme]

Ok, for lvl 12 silent running is a must have (i like stealth and i also like bethesda-stealth when you stand in plain sight, shoot the guy's face and he is like 'now im hearing things!').

What about lvl 13? I dont use flamers that much to take Pyromaniac. +30 HP is a joke. +20% from stimpaks - maybe, but there is plenty of healing stuff. Cannibal - i didnt decide what karma i want yet, and it doesnt give THAT much health. For robotics expert - is there a lot of robots in game? And the last variant is +25% to headshots in VATS, but again its not additive bonus.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by John Galt:

Ok, for lvl 12 silent running is a must have (i like stealth and i also like bethesda-stealth when you stand in plain sight, shoot the guy's face and he is like 'now im hearing things!').

What about lvl 13? I dont use flamers that much to take Pyromaniac. +30 HP is a joke. +20% from stimpaks - maybe, but there is plenty of healing stuff. Cannibal - i didnt decide what karma i want yet, and it doesnt give THAT much health. For robotics expert - is there a lot of robots in game? And the last variant is +25% to headshots in VATS, but again its not additive bonus.

There are quite a few robots late game, and indeed, sentry bots tend to be more of a problem than most power armored opponents. If you want to kill them faster, than go ahead with that, if not, then of those listed you should probably go with vats increase. It's not like there is a shortage of stimpacks at any point in the game outside of operation anchorage.

[Jimmy_Kerry]

If you want to level up skills quickly, upgrade your intelligence to 10 first, as more intelligence you have, more skills points you recieve

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Jimmy Kerry:

If you want to level up skills quickly, upgrade your intelligence to 10 first, as more intelligence you have, more skills points you recieve

Clearly you didn't read the OP very well. He already has done the math, and is simply asking second opinions on the perks available.

[The Selfish Meme]

I've taken a peak ahead and I see that most of the Broken Stell perks are crap, so I'll have to pick some more perks from the original game. Correct me if I'm wrong:

lvl 22:
Deep sleep (xp bonus for sleeping in all beds) - junk since there is a level cap anyway
Puppies (spawns a new dog if the old one is killed) - i dont like companions so much, and can still reload the game if it dies
Quantum Chemist (get a Quantim Cola for 10 usual ones) - somewhat decent, it can be used in crafting

lvl 24:
three Karma perks, useless
the one that raises all SPECIAL to 5, a waste compared to raising them to 9 later

26:
rad tolerance - junk, not so much radiation in game
warmonger - would be good but the WIki says it's bugged and you still have to use the console to make it work
nerves of stell (+1 AP every 10 seconds) - not sure if thats noticable but might as well take it because there's nothing better

28:
no alcohol addictions - no thanks :)
-1 rad every 20 secs - COULD be good but again not so much radiation

30:
well...Almost Perfect and can't take the other one.

Did I underestimate one of them?

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by John Galt:

I've taken a peak ahead and I see that most of the Broken Stell perks are crap, so I'll have to pick some more perks from the original game. Correct me if I'm wrong:

lvl 22:
Deep sleep (xp bonus for sleeping in all beds) - junk since there is a level cap anyway
Puppies (spawns a new dog if the old one is killed) - i dont like companions so much, and can still reload the game if it dies
Quantum Chemist (get a Quantim Cola for 10 usual ones) - somewhat decent, it can be used in crafting

lvl 24:
three Karma perks, useless
the one that raises all SPECIAL to 5, a waste compared to raising them to 9 later

26:
rad tolerance - junk, not so much radiation in game
warmonger - would be good but the WIki says it's bugged and you still have to use the console to make it work
nerves of stell (+1 AP every 10 seconds) - not sure if thats noticable but might as well take it because there's nothing better

28:
no alcohol addictions - no thanks :)
-1 rad every 20 secs - COULD be good but again not so much radiation

30:
well...Almost Perfect and can't take the other one.

Did I underestimate one of them?

You are pretty much correct, although I will mention that Dogmeat is pretty much doggy-jesus at level 30 due to how his health is calculated, sorta like fawkes.

[The Selfish Meme]

Originally posted by DarthNachoz:

Originally posted by John Galt:

I've taken a peak ahead and I see that most of the Broken Stell perks are crap, so I'll have to pick some more perks from the original game. Correct me if I'm wrong:

lvl 22:
Deep sleep (xp bonus for sleeping in all beds) - junk since there is a level cap anyway
Puppies (spawns a new dog if the old one is killed) - i dont like companions so much, and can still reload the game if it dies
Quantum Chemist (get a Quantim Cola for 10 usual ones) - somewhat decent, it can be used in crafting

lvl 24:
three Karma perks, useless
the one that raises all SPECIAL to 5, a waste compared to raising them to 9 later

26:
rad tolerance - junk, not so much radiation in game
warmonger - would be good but the WIki says it's bugged and you still have to use the console to make it work
nerves of stell (+1 AP every 10 seconds) - not sure if thats noticable but might as well take it because there's nothing better

28:
no alcohol addictions - no thanks :)
-1 rad every 20 secs - COULD be good but again not so much radiation

30:
well...Almost Perfect and can't take the other one.

Did I underestimate one of them?

You are pretty much correct, although I will mention that Dogmeat is pretty much doggy-jesus at level 30 due to how his health is calculated, sorta like fawkes.

Do I need to get him early or his HP is calculated regardless?

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by John Galt:

Originally posted by DarthNachoz:

You are pretty much correct, although I will mention that Dogmeat is pretty much doggy-jesus at level 30 due to how his health is calculated, sorta like fawkes.

Do I need to get him early or his HP is calculated regardless?

I'm pretty sure it scales irregardless. Dogmeat ends up with like 15000 health at max level, while RL-3 has 10000 and Fawkes has the same as dogmeat. Meanwhile everyone else is under 600 at max level. Most of them are actually closer to 400.
So, as I said before, Dogmeat is doggy-jesus, and takes a deliberately laid minefield plus mirv to kill in a realistic amount of time when you are level 30.

[Gramarye]

For some reason I still haven't gotten Dogmeat (playing the game without guides), just haven't found him, though I've absorbed by osmosis who he is, of course, and I took the Puppies! perk anyway simply because I was running out of good ones to take.

Any skill-bonus-only perk is absolutely useless. Avoid them.

For the perks, note that Almost Perfect also increases all of your remaining skills, including huge boosts to the skills you have only an initial stat of 1 in.

For your immediate future, definitely get Robotics Expert; I was unsure when I took it but definitely worth it.

I also took Pyromaniac later, could have picked something else (I never did get Gunslinger but almost all the guns I use at long range are two-handed, and VATS never goes above 95% so even without it, I'm usually at 95% for headshots at the close ranges where I tend to be using pistols). I'm glad I did, but just for fun, not for real usefulness. The Flamer is OK but not the best heavy weapon and the Heavy Incinerator often ends up setting yourself on fire. The real fun is the Shishkebab, which becomes the most powerful melee weapon in the game with Pyromaniac (IIRC even stronger than Jiangwei's Shocksword from Operation Anchorage) and is just so entertaining to use. The knockback effect actually makes it surprisingly effective against other melee opponents, even ones that take a lot of damage ... I fought an albino radscorpion with it and did better than I did with the shotgun.

[The Selfish Meme]

Originally posted by Gramarye:

For the perks, note that Almost Perfect also increases all of your remaining skills, including huge boosts to the skills you have only an initial stat of 1 in

I know, but not sure if I'll be patient enough to not raise them to 100 before :)

Right now I'm working on Lockpick & Science (both are 80+, i use the glitched science book but it's too boring so i get 1-2 in a while and go somewhere else) to be able to pick & hack everyhing. Then I was thinking of getting 100 Sneak (along with Silent Running should make stealth OP), then 100 speech to not miss higher quest rewards and additional info. After 100 speech I'll finally start doing quests and leveling up faster.

Combat skills can wait till higher lvls, I guess, but my lowest stat is Charisma which does not affect them.

Update then. I'm at lvl 11, my SPECIAL is: 7 7 7 1 7 6 8 (includes Ant Might perk for +1 STR and Luck bobblehead since you can still get 10 Luck with the 8-Ball which I didn't obtain yet).

12 - Silent Running (must-have)
13 - Robotics Expert (guess it works good with stealth)
14 - Cyborg: +10 Energy Weapons, +10% to Radiation Resistance, Poison Resistance and Damage Resistance (quite neat i think because of the DR)
15 - Lawbringer (a way to raise karma if i need it + access to a new location)
16 - Better Criticals: +50% damage with critical hits (must-have)
17 - ???

Is +25 AP perk good?

Master trader doesn't lower the prices under the base price so it's a waste. Reduced limb damage - well, even now I rarely get anything crippled (unless i stand on an explosing nade).

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by John Galt:

Originally posted by Gramarye:

For the perks, note that Almost Perfect also increases all of your remaining skills, including huge boosts to the skills you have only an initial stat of 1 in

I know, but not sure if I'll be patient enough to not raise them to 100 before :)

Right now I'm working on Lockpick & Science (both are 80+, i use the glitched science book but it's too boring so i get 1-2 in a while and go somewhere else) to be able to pick & hack everyhing. Then I was thinking of getting 100 Sneak (along with Silent Running should make stealth OP), then 100 speech to not miss higher quest rewards and additional info. After 100 speech I'll finally start doing quests and leveling up faster.

Combat skills can wait till higher lvls, I guess, but my lowest stat is Charisma which does not affect them.

Update then. I'm at lvl 11, my SPECIAL is: 7 7 7 1 7 6 8 (includes Ant Might perk for +1 STR and Luck bobblehead since you can still get 10 Luck with the 8-Ball which I didn't obtain yet).

12 - Silent Running (must-have)
13 - Robotics Expert (guess it works good with stealth)
14 - Cyborg: +10 Energy Weapons, +10% to Radiation Resistance, Poison Resistance and Damage Resistance (quite neat i think because of the DR)
15 - Lawbringer (a way to raise karma if i need it + access to a new location)
16 - Better Criticals: +50% damage with critical hits (must-have)
17 - ???

Is +25 AP perk good?

Master trader doesn't lower the prices under the base price so it's a waste. Reduced limb damage - well, even now I rarely get anything crippled (unless i stand on an explosing nade).

Action boy/girl is good if you use a ton of vats, otherwise not worth it. It adds an extra shot, maybe 2 for most weapons.

[Gramarye]

I thought the +25 AP perk was a no-brainer. I use VATS like crazy, of course, but I don't see why anyone wouldn't other than if you're some kind of self-restricting FPS purist.

This was my build, as far as I remember off the top of my head:

1. (none)
2. Black Widow
3. Intensive Training - Strength (realized I needed it to get the minimum for Strong Back)
4. Educated
5. Comprehension
6. Toughness
7. Bloody Mess
8. Commando
9. Strong Back
10. Finesse
11. Mysterious Stranger
12. Sniper
13. Silent Running
14. Light Step
15. Cyborg
16. Action Girl
17. Better Criticals
18. Concentrated Fire
19. Robotics Expert
20. Grim Reaper's Sprint
21. Ninja
22. Puppies!
23. Pyromaniac
24. Adamantium Skeleton
25. Paralyzing Palm
26. Warmonger
27. Nerves of Steel
28. Quantum Chemist
29. Chemist
30. Almost Perfect

I would have taken Solar Powered and Rad Absorption if I'd had the minimum EN, but I didn't. If I play again I'll likely build with that in mind. I don't really use Paralyzing Palm, though it's sick when it works, and honestly, Nerves of Steel doesn't regenerate AP as fast as I thought it would. (Like it's clearly a little faster than it was before but not what you'd think of as a level 26 perk.)

The thematics of Lawbringer appealed to me, but not the actual stats. There is no shortage of positive karma or caps available in the game. Heck, just collect scrap metal and give it free to the Megaton water processing plant guy (Walter?). Or if it's caps you're after, sell it, but the usual loot you get from enemies is quite enough to fill your wallet with not even all that much grinding. There aren't even a whole lot of major sinks for your caps; I just reached level 30 and have already finished the main questline, OA, and PL and I have more than 30,000 caps, and I had Charisma 1 for most of the game and Barter of around 25.