Enclave vs Brotherhood

[Yhvh10]

What I can't figure out is how a group of wannabe boy scouts with antiquated power armor (They don't even have the T-51b like on the west coast) can beat the living heck outta a highly advanced army that has every possible factor on their side except local support which I have a feeling doesnt amount to much. The enclave have better weapons, more soldiers, better armor and vertibirds. Other factors include more advanced bases and officers who probably have actual tactical training. And why did the Enclave not nuke the citadel during broken steel. All they had to do was press the enter button on the terminal keyboard and that would have solved their problem.

[Sovereign]

The Brotherhood didn't beat the Enclave, Liberty Prime and the player did. During the battle of Adam's Air Force Base for example the BoS were just a distraction for the player and they ended up getting massacred they even admitted that Liberty Prime was their only advantage and was the one doing all the work while the player was in a coma and the Enclave still killed him in the end. Without Liberty Prime and the player the BoS wouldn't have stood a chance. As for why they didn't just bomb the Citadel, there is a desk terminal in the same room as the terminal the player uses to call in the strike. On this terminal you find out that the satelite control terminal malfuntioned and that both the guys maintenance sent up were idiots who couldn't fix it. The officer in charge of the control tower was telling maintenance to get their sh*it together, they had just fixed it when the BoS stormed the complex. If the player had been just a few minutes late the citadel would have been screwed.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

The Brotherhood didn't beat the Enclave, Liberty Prime and the player did. During the battle of Adam's Air Force Base for example the BoS were just a distraction for the player and they ended up getting massacred they even admitted that Liberty Prime was their only advantage and was the one doing all the work while the player was in a coma and the Enclave still killed him in the end. Without Liberty Prime and the player the BoS wouldn't have stood a chance. As for why they didn't just bomb the Citadel, there is a desk terminal in the same room as the terminal the player uses to call in the strike. On this terminal you find out that the satelite control terminal malfuntioned and that both the guys maintenance sent up were idiots who couldn't fix it. The officer in charge of the control tower was telling maintenance to get their sh*it together, they had just fixed it when the BoS stormed the complex. If the player had been just a few minutes late the citadel would have been screwed.

I think bethesda was unrealistic. One vault dweller with the help of technologically inferior faction beat the absolute crap out of the most advanced military in the wasteland. If I was the officer i'd leave that out of my resume lol.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

The Brotherhood didn't beat the Enclave, Liberty Prime and the player did. During the battle of Adam's Air Force Base for example the BoS were just a distraction for the player and they ended up getting massacred they even admitted that Liberty Prime was their only advantage and was the one doing all the work while the player was in a coma and the Enclave still killed him in the end. Without Liberty Prime and the player the BoS wouldn't have stood a chance. As for why they didn't just bomb the Citadel, there is a desk terminal in the same room as the terminal the player uses to call in the strike. On this terminal you find out that the satelite control terminal malfuntioned and that both the guys maintenance sent up were idiots who couldn't fix it. The officer in charge of the control tower was telling maintenance to get their sh*it together, they had just fixed it when the BoS stormed the complex. If the player had been just a few minutes late the citadel would have been screwed.

I think bethesda was unrealistic. One vault dweller with the help of technologically inferior faction beat the absolute crap out of the most advanced military in the wasteland. If I was the officer i'd leave that out of my resume lol.

It wasn't the officer's fault it was a maintenence problem, and the Lone Wanderer isn't just one vault dweller he's the player charater: a one-man-army badass with the power to respawn every time he dies. And remember the PC also beat the Enclave back in fallout 2 WITHOUT the help of Liberty Prime and the BoS. And if you think the player character being able to beat the bad guys in a video game despite being outmanned and out gunned is a flaw then you shouldn't be playing video games.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by sloshalot:

I think bethesda was unrealistic. One vault dweller with the help of technologically inferior faction beat the absolute crap out of the most advanced military in the wasteland. If I was the officer i'd leave that out of my resume lol.

It wasn't the officer's fault it was a maintenence problem, and the Lone Wanderer isn't just one vault dweller he's the player charater: a one-man-army badass with the power to respawn every time he dies. And remember the PC also beat the Enclave back in fallout 2 WITHOUT the help of Liberty Prime and the BoS. And if you think the player character being able to beat the bad guys in a video game despite being outmanned and out gunned is a flaw then you shouldn't be playing video games.

Nah I just think it's unrealistic. But your right he is a one man army. And yes I remember in fallout 2. The enclave in fallout 2 were seriously mean. The would chew you up and spit you out even if you had power armor and plasma weapons. The enclave in fallout 3 doesnt do em a lick of justice.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

It wasn't the officer's fault it was a maintenence problem, and the Lone Wanderer isn't just one vault dweller he's the player charater: a one-man-army badass with the power to respawn every time he dies. And remember the PC also beat the Enclave back in fallout 2 WITHOUT the help of Liberty Prime and the BoS. And if you think the player character being able to beat the bad guys in a video game despite being outmanned and out gunned is a flaw then you shouldn't be playing video games.

Nah I just think it's unrealistic. But your right he is a one man army. And yes I remember in fallout 2. The enclave in fallout 2 were seriously mean. The would chew you up and spit you out even if you had power armor and plasma weapons. The enclave in fallout 3 doesnt do em a lick of justice.

That's because in FO2 the combat was build around stats rather then skill and all the late game enemies were overpowered. If you find the Enclave easy then just turn up the difficulty and the game does do them justice, it doesn't matter how easy they are to kill in gameplay only how threatening they are from a story perspective and the Enclave are always threatening. And off course it's unrealistic, it's Fallout for god's sake.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Nah I just think it's unrealistic. But your right he is a one man army. And yes I remember in fallout 2. The enclave in fallout 2 were seriously mean. The would chew you up and spit you out even if you had power armor and plasma weapons. The enclave in fallout 3 doesnt do em a lick of justice.

That's because in FO2 the combat was build around stats rather then skill and all the late game enemies were overpowered. If you find the Enclave easy then just turn up the difficulty and the game does do them justice, it doesn't matter how easy they are to kill in gameplay only how threatening they are from a story perspective and the Enclave are always threatening. And off course it's unrealistic, it's Fallout for god's sake.

Thanks I appreciate the advice.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

That's because in FO2 the combat was build around stats rather then skill and all the late game enemies were overpowered. If you find the Enclave easy then just turn up the difficulty and the game does do them justice, it doesn't matter how easy they are to kill in gameplay only how threatening they are from a story perspective and the Enclave are always threatening. And off course it's unrealistic, it's Fallout for god's sake.

Thanks I appreciate the advice.

Sorry if I seem a little defensive, I love the Enclave, they are my favourite faction in this franchise and I believe they are well presented in both FO2 & FO3: powerful but not unbeatable. and the BoS are still a strong faction in their own right. It's not like they're dumb tribals with sharp sticks, they have power armour, gatling lasers, rocket launchers and tesla cannons so they're not push overs. Plus it still makes more sence then the NCR/Legion war: a professional military force with access to power armour and whose basic soldiers are equipped with body armour and automatic rifles being threatened by a bunch of guys in skirts wearing old NFL pads and who mostly use swords, spears and old bolt-action rifles. Now THAT'S kinda dumb (still like the Legion though)

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Thanks I appreciate the advice.

Sorry if I seem a little defensive, I love the Enclave, they are my favourite faction in this franchise and I believe they are well presented in both FO2 & FO3: powerful but not unbeatable. and the BoS are still a strong faction in their own right. It's not like they're dumb tribals with sharp sticks, they have power armour, gatling lasers, rocket launchers and tesla cannons so they're not push overs. Plus it still makes more sence then the NCR/Legion war: a professional military force with access to power armour and whose basic soldiers are equipped with body armour and automatic rifles being threatened by a bunch of guys in skirts wearing old NFL pads and who mostly use swords, spears and old bolt-action rifles. Now THAT'S kinda dumb (still like the Legion though)

Yeah I understand. The enclave is my favorite faction. They seem like the ones that make the most sense. I've never liked the brotherhood. Always though they were too self righteous. Lyons was okay though. I wasnt hitting on the enclave but rather bethesda's lack of realism. It just felt too...mmmm...out of a comic book. So yeah I totally understand. And yeah lol the Legion I never figured out still kinda like em though. Although I kinda understand how the NCR is being beaten. The legion starts training when they are 5. Trained to use swords and spears and some pistols and rifles. But they are tough and aggressive. The NCR get maybe two weeks of training before being shipped out so it's easy to assume they probably have only shot at paper targets. Although why the rangers don't just mop the floor with the legions face is beyond me.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Sorry if I seem a little defensive, I love the Enclave, they are my favourite faction in this franchise and I believe they are well presented in both FO2 & FO3: powerful but not unbeatable. and the BoS are still a strong faction in their own right. It's not like they're dumb tribals with sharp sticks, they have power armour, gatling lasers, rocket launchers and tesla cannons so they're not push overs. Plus it still makes more sence then the NCR/Legion war: a professional military force with access to power armour and whose basic soldiers are equipped with body armour and automatic rifles being threatened by a bunch of guys in skirts wearing old NFL pads and who mostly use swords, spears and old bolt-action rifles. Now THAT'S kinda dumb (still like the Legion though)

Yeah I understand. The enclave is my favorite faction. They seem like the ones that make the most sense. I've never liked the brotherhood. Always though they were too self righteous. Lyons was okay though. I wasnt hitting on the enclave but rather bethesda's lack of realism. It just felt too...mmmm...out of a comic book. So yeah I totally understand. And yeah lol the Legion I never figured out still kinda like em though. Although I kinda understand how the NCR is being beaten. The legion starts training when they are 5. Trained to use swords and spears and some pistols and rifles. But they are tough and aggressive. The NCR get maybe two weeks of training before being shipped out so it's easy to assume they probably have only shot at paper targets. Although why the rangers don't just mop the floor with the legions face is beyond me.

I agree with you for the most part but I'll just point out that Fallout isn't supposed to be realistic, Fallout 2 is practically a violent cartoon and NV & 4 are also pretty goofy. Fallout 3 is probably the most realistic game in the series.

As for the Legion, I don't care how much training they get a man with body armour and a service rifle should easily beat a man with NFL pads and a machete in a straight fight. Oh and did you ever notice that during the final battle all the legionaires pull assault & marksman carbines out of their a*sses just so thay could stand a chance despit never using them before that point XD.

[Belanos]

As the events while you were in Raven Rock showed, the Enclave was deeply divided. You were a witness to what was essentially a civil war, with one faction fighting another for control. It would have been difficult for them to mount a successful offence against the Brotherhood if they were busy fighting amongst themselves.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Belanos:

As the events while you were in Raven Rock showed, the Enclave was deeply divided. You were a witness to what was essentially a civil war, with one faction fighting another for control. It would have been difficult for them to mount a successful offence against the Brotherhood if they were busy fighting amongst themselves.

Factions? Civil war?! No, it was just Eden and Autumn disagreeing over how to use the purifier. Eden went behind Autumn's back by trying to recruit you so Autumn ordered his men to kill you, since he was the ranking military officer his orders superseded Edens when it came to the military. Eden then used RR's automated security to help you escape, that was it and it only lasted like 5 minutes and resulted in like 12 deaths (not counting those you kill getting to Eden or those who die in the RR explosion as that was your doing not Eden or Autumn) after which the Enclave were unified again and remain unified up until their defeat at AAFB. Eden even gives a speech via Enclave radio supporting Autumn's defence of the purifier and Autumn claims that while he doesn't agree with Eden onthat matter he is still loyal to the president and the Enclave.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Factions? Civil war?! No, it was just Eden and Autumn disagreeing over how to use the purifier. Eden went behind Autumn's back by trying to recruit you so Autumn ordered his men to kill you, since he was the ranking military officer his orders superseded Edens when it came to the military. Eden then used RR's automated security to help you escape, that was it and it only lasted like 5 minutes and resulted in like 12 deaths (not counting those you kill getting to Eden or those who die in the RR explosion as that was your doing not Eden or Autumn) after which the Enclave were unified again and remain unified up until their defeat at AAFB. Eden even gives a speech via Enclave radio supporting Autumn's defence of the purifier and Autumn claims that while he doesn't agree with Eden onthat matter he is still loyal to the president and the Enclave.

In one of the briefings you receive after Broken Steel kicks in, it's mentioned that the Enclave is divided. And the uprising started long before the intentions of Eden were made clear. You were still in your jail cell when things broke out, before you had even talked to him. So Col. Autumn had no way of knowing yet what the goal was regarding the purifier. Not to mention that Eden self-destructs after he talks to you, which would have left a power vacuum and a struggle for control.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Belanos:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Factions? Civil war?! No, it was just Eden and Autumn disagreeing over how to use the purifier. Eden went behind Autumn's back by trying to recruit you so Autumn ordered his men to kill you, since he was the ranking military officer his orders superseded Edens when it came to the military. Eden then used RR's automated security to help you escape, that was it and it only lasted like 5 minutes and resulted in like 12 deaths (not counting those you kill getting to Eden or those who die in the RR explosion as that was your doing not Eden or Autumn) after which the Enclave were unified again and remain unified up until their defeat at AAFB. Eden even gives a speech via Enclave radio supporting Autumn's defence of the purifier and Autumn claims that while he doesn't agree with Eden onthat matter he is still loyal to the president and the Enclave.

In one of the briefings you receive after Broken Steel kicks in, it's mentioned that the Enclave is divided. And the uprising started long before the intentions of Eden were made clear. You were still in your jail cell when things broke out, before you had even talked to him. So Col. Autumn had no way of knowing yet what the goal was regarding the purifier. Not to mention that Eden self-destructs after he talks to you, which would have left a power vacuum and a struggle for control.

What briefing are you referring to? This is the first I've heard of it and I've 100%ed the game several times.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Belanos:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Factions? Civil war?! No, it was just Eden and Autumn disagreeing over how to use the purifier. Eden went behind Autumn's back by trying to recruit you so Autumn ordered his men to kill you, since he was the ranking military officer his orders superseded Edens when it came to the military. Eden then used RR's automated security to help you escape, that was it and it only lasted like 5 minutes and resulted in like 12 deaths (not counting those you kill getting to Eden or those who die in the RR explosion as that was your doing not Eden or Autumn) after which the Enclave were unified again and remain unified up until their defeat at AAFB. Eden even gives a speech via Enclave radio supporting Autumn's defence of the purifier and Autumn claims that while he doesn't agree with Eden onthat matter he is still loyal to the president and the Enclave.

In one of the briefings you receive after Broken Steel kicks in, it's mentioned that the Enclave is divided. And the uprising started long before the intentions of Eden were made clear. You were still in your jail cell when things broke out, before you had even talked to him. So Col. Autumn had no way of knowing yet what the goal was regarding the purifier. Not to mention that Eden self-destructs after he talks to you, which would have left a power vacuum and a struggle for control.

Hi me again, your last comment made me curious so I did some digging in the game files and I can't find anything like what you claim. Eden suggested using PP to deploy the modded FEV like Richardson tried to back in FO2. Autumn thought this was too extreme and argued that the Enclave could achieve it's goals without genocide, Autumn won the arguement and they abandoned the plan but the trust between the two was shaken. Eden secretly kept the FEV for later use and Autumn acquired Eden's self destruct code as a last resort option. Autumn ordered his soldiers to kill you because he feared Eden was trying to replace him, the rank-and-file Enclave didn't know he was going agaisnt Eden only that their orders had changed, Eden says he COULD have ordered them to stand down but didn't so as to not create more division. Your right that Autumn doesn't know about Eden trying to use the FEV again until the final encounter and is shocked that Eden went behind his back, before this however he is still loyal to Eden and the Enclave stating that "I am sworn to protect the Presidency. The chain of command must be upheld."

And there is no evidence of a power vacuum after Eden and Autumn are out of the picture, the Enclave simply comes under the control of the military High Command.

[Belanos]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

What briefing are you referring to? This is the first I've heard of it and I've 100%ed the game several times.

It's been a long time since I've been to that point, but I distinctly recall some mention of the division in the Enclave ranks. It may have been just a conversation with one of the characters in the game, probably one of the BoS.

Originally posted by Sovereign:

And there is no evidence of a power vacuum after Eden and Autumn are out of the picture, the Enclave simply comes under the control of the military High Command.

There is no evidence of anything going on in the Enclave ranks once you leave Raven Rock really, but having a power struggle after the sudden destruction of their president would be a logical assumption. That's just the kind of thing that happens in a power vacuum, especially in a militaristic organization.