Guys, it's not rocket design that's at fault for flipping.

[Zorlond]

Before the official release (1.0), everyone playing KSP (Early Access version, 0.9) was dealing with what was jokingly referred to 'soup-osphere', a rediculously thick atmosphere at low altitudes. This soup-osphere was removed for 1.0 and a more realistic atmosphere put in it's place.

Somewhere between 1.0.1 and 1.0.2, we got the soup-osphere back.

If your rockets make even a slight turn below 15km, you're going to flip out. The atmosphere is too thick to allow it. Just go straight up to 14-15km, and only then start fethering over to your orbital turn. Even then, be cautious below 25km, the air is still a strong influence on high-speed rockets below that.

[jhendriks87]

I haven't meant to come over condecending and apologise if that is what has happened. I have genuinely tried to help you out with the flipping issue that was described in your first post. I'm glad that everything in now working correctly for you and as far as I am aware there have been no "wildcards" thrown in by the developers. Again, I apologise for any misconceptions.

[FourGreenFields]

If you want your rocket to be stable you dont need control surfaces, nor gimbaled engines.
Fins help, but you dont need them either.
Your centre of pressure needs to be below your CoM and you're fine. I usually do that by attaching boosters radially pretty low on the rocket. The drag they create pulls the rear retrograde -> nose is turned prograde = stable flight.

And btw: I always love it when people claim "Reentry impossible!11!1!!" "Rockets ALWAYS!!1! flip!!!!111" and stuff like that, while I manage to reenter just fine, and dont have any real problems with flipping rockets.

[hipno]

what have you set your throtle to? in the new areo' your better off goign 100%, rather than throttleing back like in 0.9.

[Imperialus]

Messaggio originale di Sir Digby Chicken Caesar:

Messaggio originale di Zorlond:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/discussions/0/620712364035470995/

Go watch his video. He resets three times within the first 16 minutes for flipping out below 10km.

If you lack both control surfaces and thrust vectoring, you should expect to lose control. He's using the reaction wheels in the capsule to control the entire rocket

So in my defense, couple points.

1) I was trying to keep going 100% vertical. In 2 of the first 3 launches The error was introduced within seconds of taking off from the launch pad without any input from me. Any keyboard input was attempts to recover that.

2) Regarding the lack of control surfaces I explain that in the beginning of the video. I only used parts from Basic, General and Advanced Rocketry as well as Survivability and basic aerodynamics because that's what you can reasonably expect to have unlocked if you've managed to make a suborbital flight. I included the super basic fins because the larger ones that come from aerodynamics put me over the 18 ton limit. Slapping a reaction wheel on that sucker and giving it the AVR-8 winglets make it super easy to fly.

[Imperialus]

Messaggio originale di jhendriks87:

Yep. just made the rocket with the few changes i suggested and it works perfectly... Put an sas unit on the rocket, change the engine for a gimbaled engine and change the fins to AV-R8 winglet. works perfectly fine. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=436540700

Now the catch is... You've got parts from at least two nodes on the 5th tier of the tech tree there. The reaction wheels and the T-800 fuel tank. Only way you're going to have enough science to unlock those is by getting into orbit in the first place which is kinda putting the cart before the horse.

[Migz - DH]

@ Zorland

It looks like you've changed your mind about what your wrote in your original post. I suggest adding an update to it indicating what you now believe (probably change the title too).

------------------------

For anyone who's curious to see a video showing a wingless rocket turning safely well below 10,000 meters, I just created one. I began a subtle turn at 700 meters, but it became more noticable at around 1600m. The rocket gets a little squirrely around 30,000 meters, but that's my fault, because I'm still not used to the controls.

https://youtu.be/hXE9ze9koys

Here's one of the same rocket I made yesterday when the topic of flipping rockets came up. There, I waited to turn till ~14,000 meters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqAlRxVPwaI

------------------------

For the record, I can't say whether SQUAD unintentionally did something to the atmospheric physics or not. But, the game is definitely flyable as is.

[vaga1]

Messaggio originale di Zorlond:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/discussions/0/620712364035470995/

Go watch his video. He resets three times within the first 16 minutes for flipping out below 10km.

ok from what I saw in the video. #1 the 2 boosters on the bottom. the right booster takes all the drag while the left booster is protected by the shape of the rocket and has much less drag. if he rotates the 2 boosters or rocket 90 degrees then the rocket boosters would both get the same drag forces. This is a drag induced flip caused by the rocket designe.

[vaga1]

Messaggio originale di Zorlond:

Guys, everyone who's been disagreeing with me answer this: What Game Mode do you mostly play in?

I play hardcore and have no problem.

[Imperialus]

Messaggio originale di vaga1:

Messaggio originale di Zorlond:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/220200/discussions/0/620712364035470995/

Go watch his video. He resets three times within the first 16 minutes for flipping out below 10km.

ok from what I saw in the video. #1 the 2 boosters on the bottom. the right booster takes all the drag while the left booster is protected by the shape of the rocket and has much less drag. if he rotates the 2 boosters or rocket 90 degrees then the rocket boosters would both get the same drag forces. This is a drag induced flip caused by the rocket designe.

would you be able to expand on this? I honestly figured that since the objective was to go totally vertical and the boosters were symmetrical then they would be subject to equal drag. On the occasions when I start tilting it makes more sense that one booster or the other is subject to more drag but not if the course stays straight.

[Marshall]

Messaggio originale di jhendriks87:

Well then I must be doing something wrong because all my rockets perform perfectly fine with the new atmospheres.

same here maybe this will help http://i.imgur.com/UYmzteT.png

[Zorlond]

Messaggio originale di Migz - DH:

@ Zorland

It looks like you've changed your mind about what your wrote in your original post. I suggest adding an update to it indicating what you now believe (probably change the title too).

To what? "Result Data Conflicts with Everybody?" : /

[Drevin]

Guys, I'm a newb and I tried to follow this thread in the past few hours, but since I'm quite new, I admit I didn't understand much of it.

Anyway, I might be completelly wrong and out of place, and I apologize for this, but I noticed a discrepancy today, which might be worth a look. Scott Manley's video below was recorded on 1.0.0. With his parachute+pod+flea he managed to get to 7780m. Today, with the same setup, I reached 4450m at 100% thrust limit and 5670m at 30% thrust limit. So did I screw up something, I'm not considering something, or there is a clear difference in atmosphere conditions between 1.0.0 and 1.0.2, as mentioned by the OP? The setup takes only a few minutes for anyone to replicate and test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d74m3qThOoU

[Jallaway82]

Disagree, I have no issues with the new aero. You just have to actually fly your rocket now. Take it slow and easy and start your turn from the beginning and you will be fine.

[OrangeGills]

Please watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_8TO4Ag0E

[Eymrich]

Messaggio originale di Negative, I am a meat popcycle:

Messaggio originale di jhendriks87:

Well then I must be doing something wrong because all my rockets perform perfectly fine with the new atmospheres.

same here maybe this will help http://i.imgur.com/UYmzteT.png

Mindblow

Thanks a lot that solve all my problems!

Btw even without knowing it, and even doing wrong things i was able to do pretty much all i needed to do in career mode(Normal). It's just you need to pay a lot more attention on the gravity curve you are following, depending on your rocket design.

the only thing i don't like is how now the ramjets behave, but that's off topic :D