Aerodynamics are impossible

[JAKERS]

I used to be good at getting to space and have been to all but the outer planets, but this is my first time playing this since the update and i can only get about 20km off the ground or so before it starts flipping like an acrobat at the special olymics. Do i need to totally redesign or what because right now I am starting to get pissed that they changed this and made it impossible like this.

[jhendriks87]

Yes you need to redesign. This model is more realistic and yes there is a bit of a learning curve with it. I put aerodynamic fins on the side to stabalize my rocket and make sure your gravity turn is slow and smooth or you will just tumble out of control.

[Syd Khaos]

I assure oyu its not impossible...they are actually a HUGE improvement.....

Honestly the biggest problem Ive seen since update is people still trying things the same way, then getting upset it does not work....

This is basicaly a new game...go into it with the same willingness to learn something as you had when first approching KSP.....

You need to relearn (just a little) how to build rockets....more importantly you need to relearn how to FLY....

I wont make wall of text trying to teach you...but I will leave ya with one tip...use ALOT less pilot input than you did before anytime your craft in atmo....

Plenty of Youtubers and Twitch people already doing great tutorials on how to fly this that and the other in 1.0.

PLEASE dont get frustrated and give up.....just relearn and youl be back to a rocket pro in no time bud =)

[JAKERS]

Thanks, I think ill just start from the beginning. there is one campaign that i have been working on and have done a ton of things and made a bunch or money and science. The problem may have been trying to take the turns a little too hard. Even so i tried to add a ♥♥♥♥ load of control modules and a few canards and it seems like it is too top heavy but idk why that would be...

[Cid2196]

You'll need to lookup some physics. Specifically, and I wish I had a link, there are some excellent posts about aerodynamics regarding planes. Old aero didn't matter - it was the actual physics of it. It's excellent advice. In the end, if you are flipping too much, try adding control surfaces to your lower stages. Also try limiting the thrust of them.

[JAKERS]

yeah, i tried that too, almost had to turn the main engines off in the takeoff and let the boosters do all the work, wanted to keep the velocity up through the climb so i wouldnt have to burn so hard for the orbit but i would always lose it

[Cid2196]

too top heavy is a real and serious issue. To put it simply, if your center of mass (CoM) is too high, as you turn, your lower stages/parts create more rotational force (which is distance times mass - and their distance is greater if you have a high CoM), so they make your rocket flip. If you add wings/control surfaces, as they start to flip, they create more drag to counter the flipping force.

[Syd Khaos]

Originally posted by JAKERS:

Thanks, I think ill just start from the beginning. there is one campaign that i have been working on and have done a ton of things and made a bunch or money and science. The problem may have been trying to take the turns a little too hard. Even so i tried to add a ♥♥♥♥ load of control modules and a few canards and it seems like it is too top heavy but idk why that would be...

It seems topheavy because your used to turning your rocket nose into THICK pea soup..not air lol.

OK...lemme lay little knowing on ya that ALL ksp players should know...but a supprising amount DONT (though up till now was really no fault of their own ya).

GRAVITY TURN!!!!!!!

It is called such because you let GRAVITY turn your craft!!! Thats how it works in real life....not how it worked in KSP.....

Watch some of the footage for the apollo launches....or any of the mercury launches......notice how they get about 200meters off the pad and already the begin the turn....just a mere 5deg off-bubble...but they start it that low. Now this first 5deg...and about 10deg after that are pilot input...slow and steady. After that gravity should take over and (with almost NO input from the pilot) slowly pull the nose down and through the turn!!
Gravity is changing the forward vector of the craft...rather than the pilot using thrust (and therefore burning more fuel) to change forward vector.

[rolypoly]

Well can someone sketch up roughly what an ascent profile should look like now? Much more gradual and smooth I guess?

[Cid2196]

asdg, it should come shortly. New Aero changed it, but there are posts about it. The new ascent profile should be fairly similar. I think the real problem here is the new aero, and it's effects on things like engine gimbal. People are turning too fast and too hard, and end up flipping out of control. Or they aren't at all and their designs go nuts. Mine have too - but if you get the physics, it is easily fixable. Sort of. As long as you are far enough to add more parts :-)

[IronSides]

Originally posted by asdg:

Well can someone sketch up roughly what an ascent profile should look like now? Much more gradual and smooth I guess?

you could have a "standard" one but in reality its different for each craft, but basically what syd said start the turn VERY early much earlier than you are used too in the "soup" we had before, make it slow and smooth you get up to space much faster now so be prepared for that not in terms of just speed but actual flight time too.

[Syd Khaos]

Originally posted by Cid2196:

asdg, it should come shortly. New Aero changed it, but there are posts about it. The new ascent profile should be fairly similar. I think the realy problem here is the new aero, and it's effects on things like engine gimbal. People are turning too fast and too hard, and end up flipping out of control. Or they aren't at all and their designs go nuts. Mine have too - but if you get the physics, it is easily fixable. Sort of. As long as you are far enough to add more parts :-)

THIS!!
Be easy on those sticks pilots!!!! Its by far the biggest part to get used to...

And honestly ASDG that single ascent path stuff aint gonna fly no more (ya like the pun there)!
Your gonna find that learning to make slight variation depending on your craft will make HUGE difference now.
BUT...for basics...
You still dont wanna ascend faster than terminal velocity..thats still a no-no...
Right off the pad go full throttle and try to hit 120m/s by time ya hit 1Km...
At 1KM point throttle back to maintain terminal velocity and start your turn...
Go NO MORE than 5deg or so at first...just enough to angle a bit......
Once you get up a bit higher (around 8-10Km is good baseline) gravity should be SLOWLY pulling your nose down into the turn.....you may need to give it a little (again NO MORE than 5deg of input at once) nudge every so often....

SLOW AND STEADY ON IT kerbalnauts =)

[Radioactive]

Originally posted by asdg:

Well can someone sketch up roughly what an ascent profile should look like now? Much more gradual and smooth I guess?

Yea, for starters try easing into the trajectory early on and just continue doing that as the air gets thinner. I'd also suggest doing that primarily with aerodynamic (more narrow and long) and not top-heavy rockets until you get the feeling for the new atmosphere...

[JAKERS]

thanks for all the help guys, ill definately look up some vids and try and make my old designs work, if they dont then oh well.

[SirCuddlesWorth]

Originally posted by JAKERS:

I used to be good at getting to space and have been to all but the outer planets, but this is my first time playing this since the update and i can only get about 20km off the ground or so before it starts flipping like an acrobat at the special olymics. Do i need to totally redesign or what because right now I am starting to get pissed that they changed this and made it impossible like this.

I was going to say, don't let that guy from the "special olymics" build it lol. But they all ^ covered it.

[tom147]

yea its a huge new learning curve that most good players will figure out. The problem is a lot of new players will give up early I fig. I know if I started KSP today id give up I think. 750 hrs on old game and finding it very tough. Cant play laid back like I used to.