My plane won't take off

[ToastOfDoom]

So I started a new career file after not really playing for a long time and I'm now at the point where I just dropped 45 Science to unlocked Aviation to get some of the plane parts that I need. I'm trying to do some of the surveying and taxi-ing missions because now that's all the games giving me but flying with a regular rockets just not working for me. I thought after buying this I would have all the parts I need to build a small plane that can at least get off the ground, but I'm having trouble. The design I used is similar to what I normally used for planes but I had to swap out parts and make it smaller to compensate for Career mode changes. Here are a few pictures of it:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107795
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107807
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107735
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107761

The thing is it's going plenty fast enough to take off but it just doesn't. I bought the second upgrade to the runway just in case the bumpiness was the issue but still no luck. I think it's the fuel tanks being used as body parts, on my old build I had access the the regular spaceplane fuselages but here I have to do with these, which if that is the case then it's pretty stupid that you have to spend a major amount of science early in the game just to get the parts so later you can build a plane. Anybody have any idea why it's not working? Thx!

[Aragosnat]

Take a picture with center of mass and center of lift turned on. But, likely guess is your craft is not producing enough lift.

[ToastOfDoom]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484119427
Had a bit of a save screw-up, it's basically the same thing just the wheels are different, doesn't seem ot make a difference though.

[Reaper_223]

Place your rear wheels/gear in front of the flaps on your wings. If your rear wheels are too far back the aircraft will not be able to pivot on the wheels and lift its nose up.

[[>WIZ<]]

Check out the following guide for some good info:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures

But I can tell you right now that your problem is most likely that your rear wheels are too far back, not allowing the plane to rotate the nose up, move those forward so they are just behind the CoM and the plane should take off.

[TotallyAverageGamer]

Your wheel base is the problem. Your wings provide the lift, and they cant provide lift if your wheels are too far back because then your base is to stable and the craft wont pivot upwards. Doesnt make sense so just do this:
Move your rear wheels forward so that they are infront of or right below your wings.
Or move your wings backward so they are directly above, slightly behind your wheels.

[ToastOfDoom]

Nope that didn't solve anything, even when the plane is past the runway and gliding on the little bit of space before the ocean it will slowly lower to the ocean, what am I doing wrong? I'm making sure that I keep trying to get it up but it just wont go! This is starting to get really frustrating.

[Aragosnat]

Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. Easier just to bring the rear wheels closer as well as a in line reacton wheel.

Edit: Try adding little wiglets to the front. As your current choice of wings are likely not proding enough lift.

[Migz - DH]

Do you have new pics after you moved the rear wheels forward?

[ToastOfDoom]

Originally posted by Migz - DH:

Do you have new pics after you moved the rear wheels forward?

Basically imagine the back wheels right next to the front wheels in the last shot, that's what it looks like. I can't move them any more up without the thing just tipping on it's own, and I don't think it matters at this point because the wings themselves aren't capable fo getting off on their own, as seen when I tried to fly it up after running out of runway. So what can a person do to get more lift on such a tiny craft with only Aviation unlocked?

[Migz - DH]

Tell ya what, I'm gonna try to recreate that thing in my sandbox and see what I get. Though, I use the FAR mod which will change things, so I can't guarantee the results will be useful, but it might be interesting.

[Aragosnat]

I'll try as well after I get into orbit.

[Migz - DH]

FAR says it would take an Angle of Attack of 24.3 degrees at 119 m/s to generate enough lift to get it to take off. That's over 2x the normal recommended max.

Those Delta-Deluxe Winglets just aren't doing it for you.

------

I added some tiny winglets to the front and angled them 5 degrees, and I was able to go aloft after running off the end of the runway, but it has no way to pitch up.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484137556

------

Ya, with more tweaking, I can get it to lift off even earlier though it's still a brick in the air.

[ToastOfDoom]

Alright, it's late where I live so I'm gonna hit the hay and come back to it tommorrow, I read on the guide someone sent me and I think it is taht it doesn't have any way of pointing the up, so I'll tinker with some of the wings and see what I can do. Thanks for everyone trying to help!

[Migz - DH]

What you ought to be using is the Swept Wings and Elevon 1s instead of the Delta-Deluxe Winglets.

Haha, ya, with the wings, that little thing moves pretty quickly.

[Aragosnat]

Just tried this: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/443953434412162923/42B3BB54A6A524CCC2E5C102AD88C8E521790F55/

Works well enough to fly at yur tech leve. Just might smack the engine off.

Iff need to. I can take a picture of the underside to show wheel placements and the wheels used.