Maneuver nodes in the Science mode

[Crystal Mace]

Are there any? Do I have to achieve somethig else first? Tried using it a few times in the last two days....and Cannot bring up the periapsis to orbit. Instead, it directs me on a trajectory that places Apoapsis way out behind me, and a burn that sends me straight into the planet.

I've been raising Periapsis by burning prograde since day 1 in sandbox mode. Its Orbital physics 101. Does science mode assume at my level I don't know how to calculate it yet? What could be causing the Periapsis to be stuck below the planets surface?

[Aragosnat]

Where are you trying to do this? Are you on the pad? In Flight? Or in orbit already?

[Crystal Mace]

Originally posted by Aragosnat:

Where are you trying to do this? Are you on the pad? In Flight? Or in orbit already?

Trying to achieve orbit....approching apoapsis.....trying unsuccessfully to set up a maneuver node to raise periapsis from below the planet's surface into roughly the same altitude. Achieving a circular orbit 101. Standard procedure.

Except it's not working. I set the maeuver at apoapsis, and drag out the Prograde icon to establish the time and length of burn. Again standard procdure. But Periapsis doesn't get raised.....the orbit curve bulges out BEHIND the ship, and extends into infinity, while peripsis stays stubbornly buried in the ground.

I have tried trusting procedure and doing the burn anyway assuming its a graphics glitch.....and promptly dove straight in, exploding in the atmosphere.

I can't find any references to needing to upgade my sciences to use maneuver nodes in the science mode.

Does anyone know a good tutorial for achieving orbit W/O using maneuver nodes? Those of you doing career must know how to do this, and the orbital tutorials I've sat through say yes you can do it "but we're going to use them here anyway..." So for better r worse I've never done the manual version.

For RP purposes I am totally willing to chalkthis up to a 'catastrophic instruments/computer failure' where the 'heroic Kerbonaut must take command of his craft or die.' Time to earn your flight pay, Jeb ol' buddy....

But it'd still be nice to know if I've got a corrupted program, or I've stumbled on an 'undocumented feature' of science mode....

[Aragosnat]

Okay. You are on the pad. Maneuver nodes only work when in flying or when you have orbit.

burn start turning imidiately after blast off. 85 80 degrees climb to 10 km up then then turn to 70 degrees if speed is over 350 m/s. 20 km up turn to 60 degrees if over 400 m/s. 30 km up 45 degrees if speed is 600 m/s+ if 800 m/s you could get awawy with 30 degress or a bit lower. At 30 km up in map mode if you Ap is 55 km you can have a lower angle to the horizon just make sure by 40 km up you have your Ap 70+ km.

Edit: Also Scott Manly has done a recent tutorial to help new people out. Just make sure it is reacent.

[margalus]

not to be insulting, but did you forget how to get into orbit? There is nothing to calculate or work at to get into orbit. You don't need manuever nodes to get into orbit, and you don't need them for things to work correctly either. And by the sound of things, you are doing things correctly. If you are accelerating in your direction of travel at apoapsis and your periapsis is not rising, something is seriously wrong.

I have never used a manuever node to get into orbit, it's all done by eyeball. Manuever nodes are only needed for intercepting objects.

to get into orbit I just launch, I try to get about 300m/s at 10km, tilt over to about 45° and then accelerate to 1000m/s while slowly tilting down to about 75-80°. When my apoapsis hits about 85km I cut thrust completely and coast. When I get about 35-50seconds from apoapsis I burn in the direction I am going for a few seconds to bring the periapsis up to about 85km..

if that is similar to what you are doing, and it sounds like it is, something is wrong with your game or the particular rocket you are trying to raise into orbit. Or you have a mod causing problem.

[Crystal Mace]

Originally posted by Aragosnat:

Okay. You are on the pad. Maneuver nodes only work when in flying or when you have orbit.

burn start turning imidiately after blast off. 85 80 degrees climb to 10 km up then then turn to 70 degrees if speed is over 350 m/s. 20 km up turn to 60 degrees if over 400 m/s. 30 km up 45 degrees if speed is 600 m/s+ if 800 m/s you could get awawy with 30 degress or a bit lower. At 30 km up in map mode if you Ap is 55 km you can have a lower angle to the horizon just make sure by 40 km up you have your Ap 70+ km.

Edit: Also Scott Manly has done a recent tutorial to help new people out. Just make sure it is reacent.

Okay, thx....(yes I was already off the pad, but that was still helpful :) ) on my way back to Remedial Orbital Mechanics...golly, but Pof. Manley's got a sexy accent...

[Crystal Mace]

Originally posted by margalus:

not to be insulting, but did you forget how to get into orbit? There is nothing to calculate or work at to get into orbit. You don't need manuever nodes to get into orbit, and you don't need them for things to work correctly either. And by the sound of things, you are doing things correctly. If you are accelerating in your direction of travel at apoapsis and your periapsis is not rising, something is seriously wrong.

I have never used a manuever node to get into orbit, it's all done by eyeball. Manuever nodes are only needed for intercepting objects.

to get into orbit I just launch, I try to get about 300m/s at 10km, tilt over to about 45° and then accelerate to 1000m/s while slowly tilting down to about 75-80°. When my apoapsis hits about 85km I cut thrust completely and coast. When I get about 35-50seconds from apoapsis I burn in the direction I am going for a few seconds to bring the periapsis up to about 85km..

if that is similar to what you are doing, and it sounds like it is, something is wrong with your game or the particular rocket you are trying to raise into orbit. Or you have a mod causing problem.

No mods on my version yet...waiting for compatible upgrades before monkeying with things I don't understand....(If man were MEANT to mod, he'd have.....something 'r other....)

No insult taken...I'm the one with the problem. :) Actually, I never LEARNED the eyeball method. After I pranged my fifth bird, my roomie got tired of my keening over the burned corpses of my heroic Kerbonauts and taught me how to place a maneuver node. I've been using them successfully ever since. So now I'm trying to get back to a method I've never tried before. Like trying to learn to tell time by the sun, or do complex math with a slide rule. (Which I CAN do by the way....my freshman college class was the last to not have a pocket calculator built into every object conceivable. I bought a terriffic slipstick in the bookstore on closeout for a ridiculously low price.)

My suspicion is there might be something corrupted in the way my program implements the maneuver node. But I'm testing it out first. Thanks for the assist! :)

[margalus]

you aren't going straight up and THEN trying to get into orbit are you? If that is what you try, your trajectory is too steep and it takes a LOT of energy and time to get into an orbit, if it's even possible. By the time I'm at 30-40km the end of my trajectory is already 1/3 of the way around the globe. By the time I hit 50km the end of my trajectory is almost 2/3 of the way around the globe and I am cutting throttle to coast the rest of the way to the apoapsis.

but to check if anything is wrong with your installation, Right click on your game in your library and select "Properties>Local Files>Verify Integrity of Game Cache. If any of your game files are corrupted that should fix it.

[margalus]

the reason I asked if you forgot how to get into orbit is because I didn't even get the ability to plot manuever nodes until I had already been to the Mun and back... I was new to the game and didn't realize upgrading the tracking station gave you that ability... lol

glad you didn't take it as an insult

[Crystal Mace]

Did it......achieved orbit without using a maneuver node.....:) Watched the Manly Orbital vid carefully.....my trouble was my ascension was too steep. Not enough time to implement the burn according to my node before starting back down. My launch vehicle's center of lift is way the heck out behind my center of thrust....which had me wildly unstable on lift-off before adding tail fins....which had me fighting to do my gravity turn the whole way. The launch vehicle needs a serious re-design.

Meanwhile, figuring out how to eyeball my burn vector properly showed me the trouble with just a little extrapolation. We learn more from our mistakes as they say. <g>

Thanks for the pointers! Now if I can just figure out where Mun is......

[Aragosnat]

Above Kerbin somewhere. But, geart job on finding what was wrong.