Wing controls inverted???

[coleslaw gaming]

for some reason, when i load my plane and hold "s" it goes down and when I hold "w" it goes up.. "a" and "d" work though! help anyone?

[Supermarine]

This is a well-known issue since the times of early alpha. There's no way around it. I'm guesssing you use swept wings, right?

Unfortunately, that is the way the game works. It certainly is a limitation, but you can try "offset" the wings and/or control surfaces a bit. This problem happens when the wing is mounted in front of the CM but the surfaces are aft of it (common with swept wings, elevons or fancy designs).

Use offset to move the parts towards/away from the CM, put both the wing and surfaces on the same side of the CM or compensate with fuel tanks used as ballast.

[coleslaw gaming]

my wings are behind the command module 100%

[coleslaw gaming]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=530516907

[Supermarine]

Originally posted by cmrs345:

my wings are behind the command module 100%

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

CM means here "Center of Mass" not Command Module. When designing aircraft and spaceplanes, you will see in the forums all the time these terms: CM, CL, CT or, alternatively, CoM, CoL and CoT. They mean Center of Mass, Center of Lift and Center of Thrust.

So, you are indeed using swept wings very close to the center of mass and the attaching point is in front but the surfaces in back. Try rearranging as I mentioned before.

Edit:

An easy solution is placing a traditional airplane tail with the elevators in the back, near the engine. Maybe that's what the devs intended when they designed the surfaces to behave this way. However, they didn't imagine our awesome creativity.

Put a tail and restrict the movement of your surfaces (right click on them in the editor) to closely resemble a traditional airplane and see what happens. You might not like the result but it will be functional and you can learn from it. Once you grasp the basics, you can start experimenting with weird designs (which is what we all here do).

Also, remember to keep your CL very close, just behind the CM. This makes the plane stable.

[funkynutz]

Originally posted by cmrs345:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=530516907

Is this picture the size of a postage stamp for anyone else or is it just me?

[Supermarine]

Originally posted by FunkynutZ:

Originally posted by cmrs345:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=530516907

Is this picture the size of a postage stamp for anyone else or is it just me?

It's just you, buddy. I see it in full size when I click on it.

[Randox]

I don't normally deal with planes, so I could be wrong, but wouldn't using the "invert" option on the offending control surfaces also fix the issue? Right click on the part after it's been places and select invert.

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by cmrs345:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=530516907

while your at it you might want to adjust your center of lift and mass so that they are on the same location. If they are misaligned your aircraft will naturally pull up/down on its own making it a pain to fly.

[coleslaw gaming]

Ah i see, i was being stupid.. but now my vertical control is crap and I can barely control my pitch (it flies now though so thats a plus)

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Nadlug:

while your at it you might want to adjust your center of lift and mass so that they are on the same location. If they are misaligned your aircraft will naturally pull up/down on its own making it a pain to fly.

That's what trimming is for. Rotate wings so you're at 0° AoA in cruising conditions, and use alt + qweasd to trim.
CoL should be behind CoM, so the plane is stable.

[Nadlug]

I find that a craft is more stable and more efficent with CoL and CoM Lined up. Trimming the wings = more drag while cruising = wasted fuel.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Nadlug:

I find that a craft is more stable and more efficent with CoL and CoM Lined up. Trimming the wings = more drag while cruising = wasted fuel.

In this case, stock aero is either more messed up than I thought, the stock CoL indicator is more messed up than I thought, or you don't know what stability is.

[Nadlug]

To me its 2 things, the first is for an aircraft to not pitch up or down on its own accord, (affected by misaligned CoL/CoM.) The second is in general KSP wobble which can cause some really interesting flight behavior. (fixed with struts obviously)

Perosnally trimming is unacceptable the increase in drag is simply not worth it in the long term.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Nadlug:

To me its 2 things, the first is for an aircraft to not pitch up or down on its own accord, (affected by misaligned CoL/CoM.) The second is in general KSP wobble which can cause some really interesting flight behavior. (fixed with struts obviously)

Perosnally trimming is unacceptable the increase in drag is simply not worth it in the long term.

So you really don't know what stability is.
There is no "to me" if it's properly defined.

Put simply, a stable plane will point its nose prograde. A neutrally stable plane won't do ♥♥♥♥, an instable plane will try and point retrograde.

If the increased drag is a proplem, canard, and low stability (but still stable). Or, as mentioned before, use AoI (basicly built-in AoA) for the main wings.

[Nadlug]

How in the hell you define "Stable" as a vehicle that changes pitch prograde or retrograde on its own accord is beyond me. To me and any sensible person that is "unstable" and it is because the CoL and CoM are misaligned as I said before.

Now, do you want an aircraft that fusses with your inputs and drifts upwards when you dont want it to? Or do you want one that does what you tell it to do and fly's straight n' level.