Kerbal Space Program

Kerbal Space Program

Leo Oct 19, 2020 @ 12:00pm
Safe Duna Aerobraking Altitude
I have a crewed lander that is going to duna and I want to know the safe altitude to aerobrake. Note that I DO NOT want the optimal altitude, since I have trajectories mod installed.

TL; DR: What is the minimum altitude for Duna from Kerbin where you dont burn up?
Last edited by Leo; Oct 19, 2020 @ 12:00pm
Originally posted by Quizzical:
If you came from Kerbin and are hitting Duna's atmosphere at 2700 m/s, you probably botched the flight path to get there. You want your vehicle to be traveling roughly tangent to Duna's orbital path when you rendezvous.

That said, it's probably salvageable. If you enter Duna's atmosphere at 2700 m/s aiming for a periapsis of 10 km, that will probably be low enough to keep you from zipping back off into space. It might also cause you to explode, though, as it's pushing it. If you thrust retrograde around the time you enter the atmosphere to bring that down to 2000 m/s, that should be safe. I'm not sure how far down you'd have to go.

I personally tend to burn retrograde to get to a low orbit first, and then it takes only a modest retrograde burn to tip down into the atmosphere and land. The main reason I do that is that I tend to pack several vehicles together for a launch, some of which are intended to stay in space. But you don't have enough delta-v available to do that with your existing vehicle.
< >
Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Quizzical Oct 19, 2020 @ 1:11pm 
I assume that you're trying to land on Duna, since you call it a "crewed lander".

Whether you burn up also depends very heavily on how fast you're entering the atmosphere.
How much speed it takes to burn up depends tremendously on what temperatures your vehicle can handle. If all exposed parts can handle 2000 K, that's a lot simpler than if you're trying to protect parts that explode at 1200 K, especially rover wheels.

That said, I've never had any thermal problems on Duna. Even 1300 m/s would be an escape velocity if you're outside of Duna's atmosphere, and a low orbit is going to be closer to 900 m/s, which isn't enough to burn anything.

The bigger problem that I've had on Duna is the thin atmosphere not slowing you down enough, and then you smack into the ground before your parachutes open. But that also depends on a lot of factors.

Coming in with an initial periapsis of around 10-15 km and then relying on drag to put you on the ground eventually seems to work, though it also makes it hard to aim for a precise landing spot.
Leo Oct 19, 2020 @ 1:31pm 
I have about 750m/s extra DeltaV so I have some room, my goal is to not burn up
Leo Oct 19, 2020 @ 1:32pm 
My front parts(Or back parts) are 4 terrier and 1 poodle engine, and velocity when I touch the atmosphere is 2.7 km/s
Last edited by Leo; Oct 19, 2020 @ 1:41pm
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
Quizzical Oct 19, 2020 @ 4:21pm 
If you came from Kerbin and are hitting Duna's atmosphere at 2700 m/s, you probably botched the flight path to get there. You want your vehicle to be traveling roughly tangent to Duna's orbital path when you rendezvous.

That said, it's probably salvageable. If you enter Duna's atmosphere at 2700 m/s aiming for a periapsis of 10 km, that will probably be low enough to keep you from zipping back off into space. It might also cause you to explode, though, as it's pushing it. If you thrust retrograde around the time you enter the atmosphere to bring that down to 2000 m/s, that should be safe. I'm not sure how far down you'd have to go.

I personally tend to burn retrograde to get to a low orbit first, and then it takes only a modest retrograde burn to tip down into the atmosphere and land. The main reason I do that is that I tend to pack several vehicles together for a launch, some of which are intended to stay in space. But you don't have enough delta-v available to do that with your existing vehicle.
Azunai Oct 20, 2020 @ 6:15am 
if you come in from a proper hohmann transfer you only have to shed about 50 m/s or so to turn the hyperbolic flyby trajectory into an orbit within the duna SOI.

in my experience aiming for ~25km altitude is enough for that. you can then finetune it some more with a few additional passes. you just have to be careful about ike getting in the way and giving you unwanted gravity assists since its fairly close to duna and its orbit is close to equator plane.

when you come in significantly faster you have to aim much lower and you probably want a heat shield. or redo the whole thing and plan a proper transfer to avoid the issues.
WhamyKaBlamy Oct 20, 2020 @ 6:40am 
Personally I normally have A.I.R.B.R.A.K.E.s on my landers and hit the atmosphere at 25km. It'll land in one go without anything asploding. 10km does seem to be the limit for doing it safely for the way I build them, but I like the 25km because it gives me plenty of time to use a little thrust to change my landing spot if I need to.
Leo Oct 20, 2020 @ 12:14pm 
I have about extra 1200m/s extra(First time) but I have chutes so I have 1700m/s extra. I have used 800m/s to slow down and 20km was enough, thanks! (My solar panels still burned but I have RTGs)
WhamyKaBlamy Oct 20, 2020 @ 12:36pm 
If you have KAC installed it has a handy tool for putting a transfer window alarm on.

Even if you want to do it manually it's quite nice to throw down an alarm for each ship, especially if you're sending a few at a time.

This guy also has a good guide on how to get a transfer window lined up without using any tools https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAl-JeZ59T8
A few others have done similar tutorials, this was just the first one I ever saw.
Last edited by WhamyKaBlamy; Oct 20, 2020 @ 12:36pm
Quizzical Oct 20, 2020 @ 12:50pm 
Originally posted by Leo:
I have about extra 1200m/s extra(First time) but I have chutes so I have 1700m/s extra. I have used 800m/s to slow down and 20km was enough, thanks! (My solar panels still burned but I have RTGs)

Always retract any deployable antennas or solar panels before trying to land in an atmosphere. It is possible to land without destroying them, but it takes an enormous retrograde burn, so it's usually not worth the hassle. It's typically not heat that destroys them, but "dynamic pressure", or loosely, drag. If you watched carefully, there was probably an animation of the panels flying off of your ship when they broke. When choosing solar panels for a mission that will eventually land in an atmosphere, if you're going to use deployable solar panels, make sure you use ones that are retractable.

Personally, I don't use solar panels for vehicles that will land somewhere, as they're going to be blocked by whatever you landed on more than half of the time. I prefer nuclear power in most cases. If I need a ton of power for mining equipment, then add fuel cell arrays. Solar panels make a lot more sense for vehicles that will stay in high orbits, especially if near the sun or if they only need to power a probe core.
Quizzical Oct 20, 2020 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by WhamyKaBlamy:
If you have KAC installed it has a handy tool for putting a transfer window alarm on.

Even if you want to do it manually it's quite nice to throw down an alarm for each ship, especially if you're sending a few at a time.

This guy also has a good guide on how to get a transfer window lined up without using any tools
A few others have done similar tutorials, this was just the first one I ever saw.

That's a very old video, which probably explains why the person who made it thought it was so hard to time warp. The basic method does fundamentally work, though, which is the important thing.

Personally, I put a small vehicle in low orbit about Kerbin early on that I can use to make maneuver nodes from. I leave the vehicle there, as its only purpose is to test maneuver nodes, and it can test for a bunch of different, future vehicles that are going to different places.

I also use Alexmoon's launch window planner to tell you approximately when the optimal launch windows will be without having to experiment with it. That's just a web site, not a game mod. Regardless, there's more than one way to do it.

For the original poster, if you're confused about why we're talking about launch windows, depending on when you launch, you could need large burns in interplanetary space or come in at a large angle to a planet, which makes you approach the planet at a much higher velocity than necessary. Leaving Kerbin orbit at a suitable time (optimal launch windows) is how you avoid that. You don't need to get exactly the right time; if you're off by 10 days, it doesn't matter very much. Being way off can be really inefficient, though, especially when going to Duna or Eve.
WhamyKaBlamy Oct 20, 2020 @ 1:14pm 
Originally posted by Quizzical:
That's a very old video, which probably explains why the person who made it thought it was so hard to time warp. The basic method does fundamentally work, though, which is the important thing.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that part isn't important anymore, my bad.
Leo Oct 21, 2020 @ 6:50pm 
Originally posted by Quizzical:
Originally posted by Leo:
I have about extra 1200m/s extra(First time) but I have chutes so I have 1700m/s extra. I have used 800m/s to slow down and 20km was enough, thanks! (My solar panels still burned but I have RTGs)

Always retract any deployable antennas or solar panels before trying to land in an atmosphere.
They were the big static solar panels.
< >
Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Oct 19, 2020 @ 12:00pm
Posts: 12