what is (in your experince) the best lifter stage for heavy loads?

[internetrules]

i have played KSP for a looooooong time but i still dont know what the best type of lifter stage is

[internetrules]

Originally posted by RoofCatA:

on Kerbin or Duna?

kerbin

im mainly asking cuz i dont know how to launch 100T loads into orbit without insane lifting stages

[internetrules]

Originally posted by RoofCatA:

looking at some random stored numbers in my head - I have used 200t lifter stage to lift 100t final stage. But there I used quite a lot (half?) of final stage fuel as well. It was part of the plan so I could save on VAC engines for lifter.

Half of the lifter stage weight was solid boosters (Kickbacks mainly), which are very heavy. Other half was 1 Twinboar and tanks. Some of the tanks were dropable.

Hammers are best to start the lift, but burn out really quickly. Best solid TWR. Pure monsters.
Kickbacks are great to help fuel engines while they still have full tanks (up to 20km in best acceleration case). They are kind of balancing-out boosters.
Thumpers are somewhere in between. Less TWR than Hammers, and less endurance than Kickbacks. Lets call them Hammer-extension stage.
Flea- useless.

If you don't want to spend too much upper stage fuel, you can use dropable tanks added to upper stage or go even larger - Mammoth for launcher. 1 should be enough for properly designed stuff (not too much drag). Plus boosters of course.

100t are nowhere extreme. There are somewhat crazy people lifting 300t and more in single launch. Deathstar Station builders. Those stations are useless, but it's a nice hobby for some.

i guess i just havent tried enough difrent kinds of lifters

[internetrules]

Originally posted by RoofCatA:

sometimes the trick is in combination.
I have no KER's, MechJeb's no formulas whatsoever. I just have earned some intuition with all the launches I guess. After the initial test I see at which point fuel engines strugle and respective to that add either the right boosters or make more tanks dropable. I have had launchers which had Kickbacks, Hammers and Thumpers at the same time. All of them. And like 4..5 stages of dropable tanks I monitor in flight. If you want to create most powerfull (TWR) lifter, dropable tanks and combinations of boosters are the way I guess. Or just go huge and blast a hole in the Ozone layer so it learns how to mess with you

i want to make a 1mega ton lifter stage now (also yes i am using mega tons because PEOPLE NEED TO USE THAT TERM MORE ITS AWESOME (and giga tons))

[maculator]

Originally posted by RoofCatA:

sometimes the trick is in combination.
I have no KER's, MechJeb's no formulas whatsoever. I just have earned some intuition with all the launches I guess. After the initial test I see at which point fuel engines strugle and respective to that add either the right boosters or make more tanks dropable. I have had launchers which had Kickbacks, Hammers and Thumpers at the same time. All of them. And like 4..5 stages of dropable tanks I monitor in flight. If you want to create most powerfull (TWR) lifter, dropable tanks and combinations of boosters are the way I guess. Or just go huge and blast a hole in the Ozone layer so it learns how to mess with you

This is how I began to play KSP too. But if your missions get bigger and bigger you'll reach a point were you need some data. And later if they're really big yo'll love mechjeb because he does the broing stuff for you.

For heavy lifting I usually go for the rhino with mainsall "boosters".

If the thing you're lifting gets too big I sometimes screw the gravityturn and add moar mainsalls/rhinos and fly straight up, its inefficient as hell, but better that way the ripping your wobbly monster apart^^

[andylaugel]

I tend to use Twin-Boars, Mammoths, and Kickbacks for my larger rockets. But I tend to concentrate on just getting the desired dV, with sufficient TWR for the initial 3,000 m/s push out of the atmosphere. While I used asparagus staging early on in my career, I've found it's often just easier and cheaper to simplify.

I also use Separatrons to move dropped stages safely out of the way. Otherwise dropped stages can bump into your rocket on its way up and destroy parts you still need. Here is an example of them in use:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=614840130

And here are examples of my heavier rockets:

Iota with a mix of Twin-Boars, Mammoths, and Poodles. It's a bit of a mess, but it works.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=750040435

Beholder with four Kickback SRBs. Note the struts that keep the bottom stages rigid, and separatrons on the nosecones of the Kickback SRBs.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=702721867

Tiger with a Mammoth and four Kickback SRBs. Note Separatrons mounted horizontally near the center of gravity of the Kickback SRBs.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=769714032
Trick: The actual mass of Tiger's final stage was under 100t, because I removed over 26,000 units of LiquidFuel (130+ tons worth), as well as a good portion of Monopropellant and all the Oxidizer. That left it with enough dV to orbit Minmus, where my mining operation added all the fuel I wanted to give it.

[maj.solo]

I don't know either what the best lifter stage is. But you can always check the power output of different engines at sea level.

And example, undernneath a kebodyne stage you can follow up with another kerbodyne stage and use a mainsail engine via adapter or some other solution. Or in the same space you can follow up with 7 kickback in the same space. I do one simple test for you cause I have nothing else to do right now, first I shoot the kickbacks to see how long they burn. I skip a lot of data and just show how the configurations behave.

Kickbacks burn for 1 minute.
Mainsail + 1 orange tank burn for 1 minute also
Mammmoth + 1 S400 burn for 1 minute also !!! what a coincidence!!


GOAL: Lift one Kerbodyne S400 tank full of fuel. Also all ships must include the super expensive high end probe core in the price. Fly radial out and see how far u get burning a single stage. Do not decouple the burnt stage.

7xkickbacks+fins
=============
1+6 this pack is wider then rockomax so dont fit underneath a lot of rockomax tank in symetry mode and little narrower then kerbodyne formula so they fit nicely together with kerbodyne stuff.

Start weight - end weight: 249t - 113t
start acceleration - end acceleration: 1.6G - 3.9G
end altitude: 68K
Price: 41K

Mainsail+1 minute of fuel
===================

Start weight - end weight: 124t - 92t
start acceleration - end acceleration: 1.0G - 1.3G
end altitude: 7K
Price: 40K

4xMainsail+4xOrange tank. Make it weigh as much as kickback solution
=====================================================

Start weight - end weight: 250t - ???t ( forgot to write down end weight )
start acceleration - end acceleration: 2.1G - 5.0G
end altitude: 128K
Price: 95K

1xMammoth+1xS400 tank
====================

Start weight - end weight: 177t - 105t
start acceleration - end acceleration: 2.0G - 3.5G
end altitude: 68K
Price: 68K

1xMammoth+2xS400 tank
===================

Start weight - end weight: 251t - 115t
start acceleration - end acceleration: 1.2G - 3.4G
end altitude: 174K
Price: 80K

And finally in all fairness we build a kickback solution that costs as much as the mammoth solution

21xKickback FTW
==============

Start weight - end weight: 587t - 177t
start acceleration - end acceleration: 2.0G - 8.5G
end altitude: 304K
Price: 79K

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not test the other engines not designed to be in the first statge anyways.

Allright. So at a glance .... price performance ... Rockomax is doing rather badly. Kerbodyne ain't that bad. And kickback shine as the true star of heavy lifting. And that is what I've been telling you guys.

Though I got a bit worried when the 4xmainsail generated that much thrust ... but looking at the awful price calmed me down.

[internetrules]

"21xKickback FTW
==============
end altitude: 304K
Price: 79K"

welp it seems like KSP noob desgins arent actually all that bad

[Twisted Reality]

I use rockets and attached to outside of rockets i put OPT_Space_Plane mod Jet engine that requires Air intake these engines are detached as i enter orbit however they help trust off the planet easily and are lighter then additional fuel tank stages or mass amount of rockets

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=769113445

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=769113468

This same ship makes it Minimus everytime!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=769113366

Base building on Minimus

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=769113542

[andylaugel]

Originally posted by maj.solo:

GOAL: Lift one Kerbodyne S400 tank full of fuel. Also all ships must include the super expensive high end probe core in the price. Fly radial out and see how far u get burning a single stage. Do not decouple the burnt stage.

Did they rename tanks in v1.3? I'm not seeing anything with "S400" anywhere on the KSP wiki or in v1.1.3.

[Syd Khaos]

Originally posted by RoofCatA:

I wouldn't use Mainsail as boosters. They have pretty bad Isp and are expensive.

What do you mean by later? I have sailed an asteroid into stable Laythe orbit from incomming to Kerbin. Can intercept, land, dock basically anything anywhere. Launching EVE - yeah, I know. Still on to do list. Waiting for all these update/bug stories to end first. And then - you just go with the best or go home. As simple as that, no rocket science.

You think there is much left to learn? KSP is already pretty boring to me to be honest. And I still don't need MechJeb.

Looks like we got another Dennis in the making.....

[maj.solo]

Originally posted by andylaugel:

Originally posted by maj.solo:

GOAL: Lift one Kerbodyne S400 tank full of fuel. Also all ships must include the super expensive high end probe core in the price. Fly radial out and see how far u get burning a single stage. Do not decouple the burnt stage.

Did they rename tanks in v1.3? I'm not seeing anything with "S400" anywhere on the KSP wiki or in v1.1.3.

they are not called EXACTLY that .... it is largest kerbodyne tank .... looking ... S3-14400 .... how irresponsible I was ..... but it is hard to remember so many numbers.

[Radioshow]

Asparagus staging.

[maculator]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=770557378
This

[MafiaProtectron]

I just lifted a 1200t fuel station in to orbit. 12 Rhinos, 12 Mamoths, 96 Kickbacks. Total mass of 6700t. I call it the Framerate Destroyer.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=770584840