relay networks.

[2kFlip (HEGUFE)]

Could somebody tell me how to set up relay stations? just drop an antenna or any other communication device+battery anywhere on the planet?

[Elementus]

You need to have a relay antenna on a satellite

[2kFlip (HEGUFE)]

Originally posted by Elementus:

You need to have a relay antenna on a satellite

:( ok. thx. Hoped to be able to build like transmitting towers, so having an large plane with 4 station in the freight bay and just dropping them with solar and parachutes....

[Yaldabaoth]

Originally posted by HEGUFE:

Originally posted by Elementus:

You need to have a relay antenna on a satellite

:( ok. thx. Hoped to be able to build like transmitting towers, so having an large plane with 4 station in the freight bay and just dropping them with solar and parachutes....

Nothing's stopping you. A satellite is just much easier. There's an option to play without additional relay stations on Kerbin, so only the KSC will work. Then your proposal might make sense. But having 3 geo-synchronous satellites is still much easier.

[AlexMBrennan]

Relays landed on Kerbin are simply space ships that happen to be stationary very close to the surface of Kerbin, so they are not connected unless you have line of sight to the KSC or another relay. Given that you are very close to the surface, you will lose line of sight a lot sooner (if you turn the occlusion settings up to max you will lose control after a mere 10km) than a sat placed in high orbit.

[Shamash_D]

Yeah, custom ground stations would probably require a LOT of ground stations positioned at regular intervals to retain connection back to a tracking center. There is a means to make it work, however, without connection, since certain pods and probe cores (the mk 1-2 pod and the Remote Guidance Units are three I can think of off the top of my head) allow a pilot on the vessel (loaded or unloaded) to assume direct control of probes they can see with thier relay antenna (which is needed on the vessel with the pilot). This has useful implications, like the ability to use a manned mother-ship to land remote probes on, say, moons of Jool, or Eeloo, or the far side of the Mun, without requiring an extensive relay set up. Suffice to say, there is no reason you couldn't manually build manned surface bases to control probes around Kerbin, so long as you use the right parts and have a pilot on board.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Originally posted by Shamash_D:

Yeah, custom ground stations would probably require a LOT of ground stations positioned at regular intervals to retain connection back to a tracking center. There is a means to make it work, however, without connection, since certain pods and probe cores (the mk 1-2 pod and the Remote Guidance Units are three I can think of off the top of my head) allow a pilot on the vessel (loaded or unloaded) to assume direct control of probes they can see with thier relay antenna (which is needed on the vessel with the pilot). This has useful implications, like the ability to use a manned mother-ship to land remote probes on, say, moons of Jool, or Eeloo, or the far side of the Mun, without requiring an extensive relay set up. Suffice to say, there is no reason you couldn't manually build manned surface bases to control probes around Kerbin, so long as you use the right parts and have a pilot on board.

Wait, what? How?

AFAIK every single probe without a pilot need direct connection to KSC for control? I just happen to place a relay antenna on every single satellite I get to launch in a mission and thus I have a very solid connection about anywhere.

Please note that in this situation, I take for granted that bounced signals from other satellite count as a direct connection to KSC. I don't mean you need a direct line of sight at all time. You can check at your signal strenght with your mouse to know when a signal is bounced thru another satellite but I don't think the icon itself don't visually change.

[andylaugel]

Here is how I've been doing it.

I've got this game I've been playing since v1.1 for about 6 in-game years. Relay antennas didn't exist back then, and lesser antennas didn't have the range limitations they do now. So sending up relays has been a priority.

My initial relay satellites used "Dawn" ion drives. I launched a pack of 4 into orbit. One by one, I spun the delivery vehicle, separated a satellite, and got it underway. While dV is great, the 0.7 m/s^2 acceleration is not.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=780380558
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=781017054
So I went back to the drawing board. The new design featured a docking port, RCS thrusters, and no engine. The RCS thrusters do give each one 1,343 dV though, and the docking port lets me use other vessels to deploy them. Monopropellant can also be made on other worlds, unlike Xenon gas.

The five-pack below delivered 2 relays to a pre-existing nuclear driver, and put the remaining 3 into an evenly-spaced orbit around the Mun. For that last part, the deliver vehicle held an eccentric orbit where it detached a relay at the Ap. From there, the relay used RCS to circularize its own orbit. Once all the relays were deployed more or less evenly about the orbit, the delivery system landed on Kerbin and got recovered.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=783692234
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=783692376
For more distant planets though, I'm using a different delivery system. I have pre-existing nuclear drivers--large ships with "Nerv" engines, large liquid fuel tanks, and not much else. So I designed the vehicle below. After docking with a nuclear driver in LKO, the "Poodle" engine separates and gets destroyed crashing into Kerbin. The mission then gets refueled around Minmus, and proceeds towards its destination. This one is heading to Dres.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=783692553
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=783695112

[Shamash_D]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

AFAIK every single probe without a pilot need direct connection to KSC for control? I just happen to place a relay antenna on every single satellite I get to launch in a mission and thus I have a very solid connection about anywhere.

Yep, if you have, say, a station out at Eeloo with a part that has a Probe Control Point module on it and I think two pilots at least, you can control probes from there without connection back to Kerbin. If you've read the Martian (spoilers if you haven't) think how the pilot on the Hermes, Martinez, controls the Mars Ascent Vehicle at the end of it or like controlling an RC car, only the RC car is a multimillion dollar piece of space equipment. You can't transmit science like this, still need connection back to Kerinb for that, unfortunately, but you can retain control.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Originally posted by Shamash_D:

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

AFAIK every single probe without a pilot need direct connection to KSC for control? I just happen to place a relay antenna on every single satellite I get to launch in a mission and thus I have a very solid connection about anywhere.

Yep, if you have, say, a station out at Eeloo with a part that has a Probe Control Point module on it and I think two pilots at least, you can control probes from there without connection back to Kerbin. If you've read the Martian (spoilers if you haven't) think how the pilot on the Hermes, Martinez, controls the Mars Ascent Vehicle at the end of it or like controlling an RC car, only the RC car is a multimillion dollar piece of space equipment. You can't transmit science like this, still need connection back to Kerinb for that, unfortunately, but you can retain control.

No, I get it fine. That's actually very clever and I didn't think it was actually possible.

Thank you for telling us.

[2kFlip (HEGUFE)]

I know the thing with sattelites... .Anyways i am just to stupid to get into an stable orbit......

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

Originally posted by Yaldabaoth:

Originally posted by HEGUFE:

:( ok. thx. Hoped to be able to build like transmitting towers, so having an large plane with 4 station in the freight bay and just dropping them with solar and parachutes....

Nothing's stopping you. A satellite is just much easier. There's an option to play without additional relay stations on Kerbin, so only the KSC will work. Then your proposal might make sense. But having 3 geo-synchronous satellites is still much easier.

I am currently playing without extra groud stations. Got my first keosynchronus up. There's no need to have three that are synchronus. One, with two in opposite (direction and symmetry) highly elipitical polar orbits will provide full coverage. The two opposite polar orbits is also the dev recommended method for full scanning ability. periapsis end of the orbit should be around 200k for Kerbin and apoapsis far higher, million or more.

[Trixi]

maybe here somebody could help me.

Do HG 5 - High Gain Antenna work for remote networks?

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

Originally posted by Trixi:

maybe here somebody could help me.

Do HG 5 - High Gain Antenna work for remote networks?

yes, but the range is not very good. You'll need the first R&D upgrade to research over 100 and the tech that provides the first fixed relay antenna (can't remmeber the name but it looks like a static dish) for a decent relay network. just around kerbin.

Remember to extend it, but not in atmosphere as aero forces will break it if not shrouded.

Relay distance seems to work off the strongest one in my experience, so a keo orbit satelleite over a groundstation has 100% quality and range throughout, but that realy's range to another sattelite will be based on the relay antenna range.

[Trixi]

thx for helping, the relay range for hg5 is really annoying small, just about half the distance to the mun :(

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

Originally posted by Trixi:

thx for helping, the relay range for hg5 is really annoying small, just about half the distance to the mun :(

It will work for *minor* unmanned control around kerbin to fufill contracts if you get two opposite polar ones too like the forums suggest here in network design section point 3. It's talking about it in the sense of moon or other body coverage, but I'm playing a hard with no ground stations except ksc career and it's providing enough for close orbit control. First one that synchronous has to go up with another manned stage attached though to retain total control until it's in place. Remeber to have solar panels and enough batteries.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148995-relay-networks-in-12/

edit, should add but might be obvious, upgrade any relays with better antennae when available.