Kerbal Space Program

Kerbal Space Program

rolypoly Nov 20, 2020 @ 1:44pm
Playing Vanilla - no mods - is it possible?
And I mean no mods, not even a protractor or launch window mod, not even a mod to calculate dV for you when designing rockets.

Basically play the game the way the devs intended it to be played.

Has anyone really done that? How far can you really get? I know getting to the Mun and Minmus is pretty simple, but once you want to go anywhere further, I just don't see how you could do it with the kind of casual happy-go-lucky approach of the Vanilla base game.

I know it sounds like a silly question, but the truth is that I have actually never played the game without mods like kerbal engineer, or the one for transiting to other bodies. Just wandering how much frustration am I going to get into?
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Showing 16-30 of 30 comments
Finarfin Nov 21, 2020 @ 11:02am 
I only got the game yesterday, so I'm playing it without mods.
Paladin Two-Seven Nov 21, 2020 @ 2:20pm 
I play strictly vanilla, with my trusty KSP Handbook... however a built-in 'warp planet to transfer' option wouldn't go amiss.
Finarfin Nov 21, 2020 @ 4:27pm 
Originally posted by Paladin Two-Seven:
I play strictly vanilla, with my trusty KSP Handbook... however a built-in 'warp planet to transfer' option wouldn't go amiss.

What is the KSP Handbook? I must confess, I'm a bit overwhelmed starting this game for the first time. There's a lot of science I simply don't grasp yet.
Last edited by Finarfin; Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:07pm
Paladin Two-Seven Nov 21, 2020 @ 4:29pm 
Originally posted by Finarfin:
Originally posted by Paladin Two-Seven:
I play strictly vanilla, with my trusty KSP Handbook... however a built-in 'warp planet to transfer' option wouldn't go amiss.
\
What is the KSP Handbook? I must confess, I'm a bit overwhelmed starting this game for the first time. There's a lot of science I simply don't grasp yet.

It is literally a 405 page physical handbook... about KSP.
Finarfin Nov 21, 2020 @ 4:52pm 
Does anyone know a good reference for the game that explains things like the differences between solid-fuel engines and liquid engines, how to determine the efficiency of your rocket design, what all the different icons on the navball mean and how to use them, etc.? I'm coming form playing Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space in the '90s, and this is a lot more numbers oriented and hands-on than that game was.
Quizzical Nov 21, 2020 @ 5:01pm 
Originally posted by Finarfin:
Does anyone know a good reference for the game that explains things like the differences between solid-fuel engines and liquid engines, how to determine the efficiency of your rocket design, what all the different icons on the navball mean and how to use them, etc.? I'm coming form playing Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space in the '90s, and this is a lot more numbers oriented and hands-on than that game was.

My write-up is here:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:How_to_Play
Finarfin Nov 21, 2020 @ 5:29pm 
Originally posted by Quizzical:
Originally posted by Finarfin:
Does anyone know a good reference for the game that explains things like the differences between solid-fuel engines and liquid engines, how to determine the efficiency of your rocket design, what all the different icons on the navball mean and how to use them, etc.? I'm coming form playing Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space in the '90s, and this is a lot more numbers oriented and hands-on than that game was.

My write-up is here:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:How_to_Play

Oh my. A game that uses algebra. And everyone always said, 'Why do we have to learn algebra? We'll never have to use it in life.'
kevlong Nov 21, 2020 @ 5:53pm 
I usually only use three mods, Kerbal Engineer, Kerbal Alarm Clock, and Navball Docking. It's possible to play without them. These are all Quality of Life items that make the planning/navigation process easier. I prefer to do everything in stock ships.
Finarfin Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:12pm 
Originally posted by Quizzical:
My write-up is here:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:How_to_Play

Do I really have to understand the science of the law of conservation of momentum, specific impulse, and delta-v to play this game? I'm looking for an introductory guide that tells me how to use the numbers that the game is calculating for me, not necessarily how they were calculated. So, for example, if I have a design that's 15,000t I just want to have the knowledge whether it will be able to do what I want it to do. I don't need or really want to know the science behind it. I'm not even sure what a vector, and I don't think I really care. If I keep reading this guide will it get me what I'm looking for?
Quizzical Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:29pm 
Originally posted by Finarfin:
Originally posted by Quizzical:
My write-up is here:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:How_to_Play

Do I really have to understand the science of the law of conservation of momentum, specific impulse, and delta-v to play this game? I'm looking for an introductory guide that tells me how to use the numbers that the game is calculating for me, not necessarily how they were calculated. So, for example, if I have a design that's 15,000t I just want to have the knowledge whether it will be able to do what I want it to do. I don't need or really want to know the science behind it. I'm not even sure what a vector, and I don't think I really care. If I keep reading this guide will it get me what I'm looking for?

If you try to ignore the concept of delta-v, the game probably isn't going to work out for you. That's a little shy of ignoring the concept of fuel, but not as far shy of it as you might think. Delta-v is the proper way to think about how much fuel you have left.

The game is very physics based, and often uses formulas borrowed from real life. You might be able to learn some things by trying something, seeing your rocket explode, and trying to figure out what went wrong and correct it. But that would basically constitute trying to learn physics from scratch by experimenting.

You probably won't need to do explicit algebraic computations. But you'd better get some decent intuition about how physics works or you won't be able to do much besides flip over and explode.
Finarfin Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:37pm 
Originally posted by Quizzical:
If you try to ignore the concept of delta-v, the game probably isn't going to work out for you. That's a little shy of ignoring the concept of fuel, but not as far shy of it as you might think. Delta-v is the proper way to think about how much fuel you have left.

The game is very physics based, and often uses formulas borrowed from real life. You might be able to learn some things by trying something, seeing your rocket explode, and trying to figure out what went wrong and correct it. But that would basically constitute trying to learn physics from scratch by experimenting.

You probably won't need to do explicit algebraic computations. But you'd better get some decent intuition about how physics works or you won't be able to do much besides flip over and explode.

I think the difficulty I'm having with the guide is knowing how to apply what's in it to the game. For example, under the Modifying orbits section it starts talking about prograde, retrograde, apoapsis, periapsis, etc., but it never tells you what those things mean. What is prograde and why do I need to know about it? It's well written, but it reads more like a text book than game guide. Referring to the delta-v, unless I'm missing it there's not a spot where it actually relates it back to what you are seeing in the game. A guide like this would benefit mightily from in-game examples and screenshots. What you've written is great if you already are familiar with these concepts, but I don't know that it helps a complete novice with a fresh installation and no mods get a good grasp of what's going on in the game. Maybe it's just me, though. I'm very math- and science-oriented, but I'm not making the connection between the math and science and how to play a game. Maybe Kerbal is like a flight simulator and is not intended for casual recreation?
Last edited by Finarfin; Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:37pm
Quizzical Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:54pm 
Originally posted by Finarfin:
Originally posted by Quizzical:
If you try to ignore the concept of delta-v, the game probably isn't going to work out for you. That's a little shy of ignoring the concept of fuel, but not as far shy of it as you might think. Delta-v is the proper way to think about how much fuel you have left.

The game is very physics based, and often uses formulas borrowed from real life. You might be able to learn some things by trying something, seeing your rocket explode, and trying to figure out what went wrong and correct it. But that would basically constitute trying to learn physics from scratch by experimenting.

You probably won't need to do explicit algebraic computations. But you'd better get some decent intuition about how physics works or you won't be able to do much besides flip over and explode.

I think the difficulty I'm having with the guide is knowing how to apply what's in it to the game. For example, under the Modifying orbits section it starts talking about prograde, retrograde, apoapsis, periapsis, etc., but it never tells you what those things mean. What is prograde and why do I need to know about it? It's well written, but it reads more like a text book than game guide. Referring to the delta-v, unless I'm missing it there's not a spot where it actually relates it back to what you are seeing in the game. A guide like this would benefit mightily from in-game examples and screenshots. What you've written is great if you already are familiar with these concepts, but I don't know that it helps a complete novice with a fresh installation and no mods get a good grasp of what's going on in the game. Maybe it's just me, though. I'm very math- and science-oriented, but I'm not making the connection between the math and science and how to play a game. Maybe Kerbal is like a flight simulator and is not intended for casual recreation?

The game displays your delta-v for you prominently, both in the VAB when constructing your rocket and later once you're out flying it. Your volume of fuel remaining is far less prominent in both situations. If you're looking for the word "delta", it's not there. The Greek capital letter delta looks like a triangle.

My guide does tell you what prograde, retrograde, apoapsis, and so forth mean. It doesn't redefine the terms every single time I use them. The coordinate axes are defined in the "maneuver nodes" section. For example:

"Rather, the game has a built-in orthonormal basis that it will show you that is very useful. One of the coordinates is the direction you're going. That's the "prograde" direction, and the opposite direction from it is "retrograde". For reasons that we'll get to shortly, much of the time, when you want to thrust at all, it is best to do it in either the prograde or retrograde direction."

Apoapsis is defined a little later, in the "in-game coordinate system" section:

"Let's start with the game's coordinate system for describing an orbit. One coordinate is the altitude of your apoapsis, which is the highest point in your orbit. Another is the altitude of the periapsis, which is the lowest point in your orbit. The third coordinate is the argument of your periapsis, which is what would change if you rotate the orbit while leaving it in the same plane. The fourth argument is your inclination, which is the angle between the plane that contains your orbit and the equator of the body you're orbiting. THe fifth coordinate is the longitude of the ascending node, which is where along the equator of the body you're orbiting your orbit passes from below the equator to above it."

The game also displays prograde, retrograde, apoapsis ("Ap"), periapsis ("Pe"), and so forth in-game where they are relevant. The pull buttons on a maneuver node are in the prograde, retrograde, inradius, and so forth directions. Now, you might not have seen some of that yet. You don't see apoapsis and periapsis until you're in orbit and look at the map. You don't see prograde and so forth until you have a maneuver node or a sufficient SAS level.

You're right that pictures would help in some places. But that's a lot more work. And it was quite enough work as it was to type up that guide.
Last edited by Quizzical; Nov 21, 2020 @ 6:57pm
GunsForBucks Nov 21, 2020 @ 7:00pm 
Originally posted by Finarfin:
Originally posted by Quizzical:
If you try to ignore the concept of delta-v, the game probably isn't going to work out for you. That's a little shy of ignoring the concept of fuel, but not as far shy of it as you might think. Delta-v is the proper way to think about how much fuel you have left.

The game is very physics based, and often uses formulas borrowed from real life. You might be able to learn some things by trying something, seeing your rocket explode, and trying to figure out what went wrong and correct it. But that would basically constitute trying to learn physics from scratch by experimenting.

You probably won't need to do explicit algebraic computations. But you'd better get some decent intuition about how physics works or you won't be able to do much besides flip over and explode.

I think the difficulty I'm having with the guide is knowing how to apply what's in it to the game. For example, under the Modifying orbits section it starts talking about prograde, retrograde, apoapsis, periapsis, etc., but it never tells you what those things mean. What is prograde and why do I need to know about it? It's well written, but it reads more like a text book than game guide. Referring to the delta-v, unless I'm missing it there's not a spot where it actually relates it back to what you are seeing in the game. A guide like this would benefit mightily from in-game examples and screenshots. What you've written is great if you already are familiar with these concepts, but I don't know that it helps a complete novice with a fresh installation and no mods get a good grasp of what's going on in the game. Maybe it's just me, though. I'm very math- and science-oriented, but I'm not making the connection between the math and science and how to play a game. Maybe Kerbal is like a flight simulator and is not intended for casual recreation?
Basically just experiment a lot. Ap and Pe are the low and high points of orbit. Each celestial body will have its own gravity area and that defines what speed you need to maintain orbit.

Kerbin takes about 2200 m/s to maintain a low orbit. Orbit being the whole blue line in map screen "M" above 70,000m . Now to get from the surface to orbital speed takes an additional 1500 m/s or more if you are less efficient with your orbital insertion from the surface. So the DV or change in velocity you need to be able to build for is around 3700m/s or a bit more.

Solid boosters are cheap and used to reduce cost when lifting from surface in atmosphere.
Typically I will use them in addition to a main lift off stage to give a little boost and save fuel for orbit when needed.

You don't need much math but practice in getting used to what you need to build for.

Last edited by GunsForBucks; Nov 21, 2020 @ 7:05pm
GunsForBucks Nov 21, 2020 @ 7:11pm 
In terms of "vectors" ... all that means is what way your ship is pointing when you go forward under thrust. When in SAS mode ... the SAS light lit on the navball by clicking on it... it will light up dots to the left of the navball... clicking on those dots will auto turn your ship to that "vector".
You can even set it to follow a preset burn vector when you set of a navigation point on your map screen.

Really the best way to learn is to get into orbit and play around burning in the different directions and seeing the result on your orbital path.

Also it can be helpful if you just want to learn this stuff if you turn on infinite propellant in the cheats area of the debug menu by hitting Alt F12.
Last edited by GunsForBucks; Nov 21, 2020 @ 7:14pm
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Date Posted: Nov 20, 2020 @ 1:44pm
Posts: 30