Input lag with Saitek joysticks

[Hyperion]

I am getting about a 1 second delay when using my Saitek X52 Pro, in all main control axes. The issue seems to have been reported years ago and still persists, so I guess the KSP / Unity developers won't fix it any time soon, if ever. Apparently all Saitek joysticks suffer from this, and the only solution so far seems to install vJoy which bypasses the Saitek programming suite which I definitely want to use with KSP, since the game doesn't even recognize all the joystick buttons, so I need to use the Saitek software's keyboard emulation.

I still gave it a try, to get some basic functionality, however I cannot bind my POV hats ingame, which I'll definitely need for translation. I've set the config to 3 POV continuous HATs (since they're 8-way and there is only a 4-way option), however only the black one's (POV 2) up input is detected, nothing else. Changing the continuous to 4-way HATs and restarting did no change.

Am I doing something wrong or is there an alternative, better solution? Ideally one that lets me use the Saitek programming suite aswell?

[Manwith Noname]

Are you running KSP 1.3? Have you tried reverting to 1.2.2?

I know that there has been some regression in controller functionality but I suspect it is just an oversight / bug rather than intentional. There's another thread where this was discussed but essentially, in 1.3, the joystick identifier seems to be missing. In 1.2.2, I can connect 2 x 360 pads and assign them with no issue. In 1.3, they are effectively seen as the same controller.

However, if I bind them in 1.2.2 and keep that config in 1.3 without rebinding, I think it works still.

Also, you could look at this mod...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/85711-11-afbw-v17-beta-joystick-controller-mod/

You'll want to read the later pages of the thread, I'm not completely sure of its current state but other users have released newer dll files you'll likely need.

[flying diomedea]

@Hyperion,
sorry to hear about the issue, but even worse to me is I don't have a solution to that (though is one issue that keeps being reported routinely in KSP support, still no fix is known apart using an external joystick driver as vJoy, which you already know together with its limitations).
However I can definitely state that "all Saitek joysticks suffer from this..." is a false statement. I never experienced this issue (have a Saitek X52Pro), not in KSP (since version 0.18 to 1.3) nor with other games (pls know I help Squad with KSP testing and reported/diagnosed/checked a number of issues related to controller support). Never been able to replicate the issue on my side is the reason I couldn't diagnose it and therefore provide help to users asking in KSP support forum. Also I know other KSP users with Saitek devices who never experienced that issue.
Let me say, perhaps is a fault by all of us trying to provide KSP support, but nothing users with the issue provided during years (e.g. DXDiag info) brought evidence of the cause for this issue. Needless to say, without ability to diagnose the real cause, there is no chance any effort by KSP developers may mitigate/fix the problem.
One thing I can consider causing this, but can't check on my side, is the joystick driver isn't accessed directly (as it should) by the OS, but something else is interfering its operations delaying all responses. Another possibility is the USB chain used to connect the stick, if other devices are polling it too frequently (hint: try detaching any unneeded USB device, or have a USB channel just for the Saitek stick). As you may notice, both possibilities above can't be independently tested, but have to be veriified on your side. Would be real nice if anybody with this issue did similar tests and showed results... but nothing came our way till now.

[Hyperion]

@Manwith Noname
Thanks for the mod suggestion but I couldn't get it to work, even with the newest custom .dll on the last page. I just moved the two folders in the mod's gamedata into my gamedata folder, as I couldn't find it in the CKAN, and I cannot see any gamepad icon during the flight mode and nothing happens after pressing Shift + L. I haven't installed mods previously so there's a chance I screwed something up, although I simply followed the instructions. I haven't tried reverting yet, will keep it as a last resort.

@flying diomedea
I'm aware of that now, since I asked my friend who also has a Saitek stick (an older one) and never had such issues although it's new to me that not all X52s suffer from it, but I've seen some threads for the X52, X65F and X55. I know the Saitek Pro Flight line can be problematic, with the SST not working at all for some (it didn't for me on Win 8 but did again since 8.1), with no solution for that even although it's been happening for 5+ years... I wonder if this delay issue just pops up randomly across different game versions or sticks there forever if you are the unlucky one, no matter what version you have.
I'll try reporting this at the KSP forums since I don't think the developers will pay that much attention to it here, and see what data I can provide them to be of any help.

Also, just found out that having vJoy installed completely overrides the Saitek drivers so I cannot use the SST anymore, which I need for other games such as DCS. So it's definitely not a solution for me.

[Manwith Noname]

I can't remember the exact issue I had with vJoy but I used it once with B17 Flying Fortress and it caused me grief elsewhere too. I think it might have been related to headtracking or my wheel, not sure.

[BSNB]

Turn the porn off and quit trying to jerk your joystick while playing a game. It takes two hands to play this game.

[XLjedi]

It's an unfortunately well documented problem with Saitek controllers and the Unity engine. I have the same problem with my X52 pro throttle & stick; can't use em. I may tinker with it again this weekend and see if I can get anywhere this time.

[Mightylink]

Hey guys, I got the x52 as well and noticed the same problem, but I fixed it by removing the official saitek drivers and just using the default windows drivers.

It still works just as good, every button and axis is still bindable and it fixed my lag problem, hope this helps.

[BSNB]

Originally posted by Mightylink:

Hey guys, I got the x52 as well and noticed the same problem, but I fixed it by removing the official saitek drivers and just using the default windows drivers.

It still works just as good, every button and axis is still bindable and it fixed my lag problem, hope this helps.

So you removed the viruses from your porn downloading?

[Hyperion]

@Mightylink
If I weren't playing games where I needed to use the mode selector on the right side of the stick, which apparently the Saitek programming suite is the only thing in the world capable of recognizing and utilizing, I probably wouldn't mind getting rid of Saitek drivers aswell. But due to the complexity level of DCS for example, I cannot pilot the A-10C as efficiently as I would want to, without it.

Also, most games don't even recognize multiple joystick key presses such as when using the pinkie button as a modifier, which in return almost always leaves me in a desperate need of more buttons.

And by the way, by every button you also mean every direction of all the three 8-way HATs? I'm not sure whether it was really getting picked up through vJoy last time I tested it with KSP, or the native stick input, since switching the HAT modes in vJoy did no change.

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by Mightylink:

Hey guys, I got the x52 as well and noticed the same problem, but I fixed it by removing the official saitek drivers and just using the default windows drivers.

It still works just as good, every button and axis is still bindable and it fixed my lag problem, hope this helps.

Yeah, I'm a little hesitant to toss out the driver that lets me actually make use of the dozen profiles that I created for every other flight game I own.

[Hyperion]

I would really like to get back to this game but controlling it through keyboard is just horrible. The input lag is still there even after the updates since the last summer. Has anyone managed to fix his problems with something other than vJoy?

AFBW seems to not be working anymore. I've installed it from the link in the mod thread, aswell as with new version of Toolbar Continued and latest .dll from the last page on the thread, but I still can't see the new configuration menu in-game.

[Chibbity]

I mean you play however makes you happy but; not playing because of lack of joystick is just silly.

You can do everything you need to in game with keyboard/mouse. Heck 90% of it can be done with the hold prograde, normal, radial nodes. Obviously you won't be using a joystick to build stuff or plot maneuvers either so...

That just leaves plane flying I guess? I love planes in KSP but it's not like the aerodynamics are realistic, so...not like it's a "flight sim" that absolutely needs a joystick.

Lowering the default sensitivity by at least half in the game options, and using Caps Lock for soft control mode makes planes totally flyable. Fine tuning maximum deflection for control surfaces can help as well. If that's not good enough, several mods exist for mouse controlled flight like Warthunder/World of Warplanes or w/e.

[Hyperion]

It doesn't seem silly to me because it feels much better when playing with a HOTAS, and due to my very difficult campaign settings it's simply too risky to do stuff through keyboard. I would love to do precise landings without having to fear for pressing a wrong key and thwarting the entire mission, losing the spacecraft, killing my astronauts etc...

I don't want to give up on the aviation part- the flight model isn't that realistic but I think it's still fun to fly, and for realism I heard there are some great aerodynamic mods out there. At first it took me about 20 tries before I could get airborne with my first plane without blowing up due to the overly instantaneous keyboard input, and it's not really satisfying having to yank my aircrafts around in high speeds through buttons instead of smooth axes.

I've got other games I would like to play and KSP simply loses it's priority because of this issue, as silly as that might sound to some. And some people seem to be able to use AFBW just fine in 1.3.1 so there's got to be a way...

[Chibbity]

Originally posted by Hyperion:

It doesn't seem silly to me because it feels much better when playing with a HOTAS, and due to my very difficult campaign settings it's simply too risky to do stuff through keyboard. I would love to do precise landings without having to fear for pressing a wrong key and thwarting the entire mission, losing the spacecraft, killing my astronauts etc...

I don't want to give up on the aviation part- the flight model isn't that realistic but I think it's still fun to fly, and for realism I heard there are some great aerodynamic mods out there. At first it took me about 20 tries before I could get airborne with my first plane without blowing up due to the overly instantaneous keyboard input, and it's not really satisfying having to yank my aircrafts around in high speeds through buttons instead of smooth axes.

I've got other games I would like to play and KSP simply loses it's priority because of this issue, as silly as that might sound to some. And some people seem to be able to use AFBW just fine in 1.3.1 so there's got to be a way...

Fair enough.

Well, I wish you the best of luck in your quest brotha!

[doum]

i use the joystick " logitec extreme 3d pro". np. Didnt try my saitek on it. sry.