Tips needed to improve VTOL stability.

[davaeron666]

So I woke up this morning with the idea to build a big VTOL gunship like what we saw in Avatar.
It works. it looks like this.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1288858268
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1288858303
I have installed small propellers ( forgot the name ) all around and in all direction to help steer the craft. In hovering mode I cannot rely on control surfaces and reaction wheels have limited effect.

The problem seems to be the gimbal of the panther thruster . those in front of CoM are helping but those behind seems to be a nuisance.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1288858319

If there is no way to invert gimbal what could be done to improve the manoeuverability of the craft. I have tried disabling gimbal completely with little results.

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by davaeron666:

The thread I created for tips has turned into " you don't have the skillz yet, it's unrealistic, it's lame to use mods." Etc. Thanks for the ones that have gave me their opinion and F**** those who try to tell others what they should/can do or not.

you current design is mediocre at best, let's face it as grown ups.
How I know that? I have had as bad ones too. So it is not an offence, it's a constatation. Can't handle the truth, not my problem.
Also Stock hinges are not really hinges. It means misusing all kind of parts creating moving connections, which aren't connections at all in games mechanics! It's just hanging one part on another between two docked states. Or bending tiny parts using landing gear or other tricks. It's all ugly and terrible. Some, very few persons, have managed to create good looking, carefully designed planes where all that is well hidden and the docking system is also well arranged and considered. But building things as good requires a lot of skill and creativity. It is no easy task. You want to dig there, good luck.
The simple truth is regular planes will always be better, more sturdy compared to those with fake hinges. No matter how great you make them after hundreds of hours spent trying. I'm just giving you fair warning. Want to waste time or feeling really talented? Again - good luck. May as well be the case. Just don't expect quick wonders.
Going the route you do right now will waste a lot of mass on extra engines and construction. Which means less range, less payload. Exactly like in real life VTOL planes have worse overall stats.

I would really start with googling creations of other talented guys. You will learn how it is done and how to make that look nice. You will also hear about their struggle with some issues.

[davaeron666]

Wow roofcat. You are so full of yourself it's exhausting to read you. With who exactly are you debating about hinges being real hinges or not or if they are ugly or not ? Who are you trying to convince when you say ''regular planes will always be better'' and what led you to think someone here gave a crap about YOUR preferences. I did not ask for your opinion about VTOL being a waste of mass and fuel as I took the time to write precedently I just felt like building one in sandbox. There are as many way to play and enjoy the game as there are players. I'm exploring the stock construction aspect that is all. Reading back your comments it seems you have some issues with self-confidence. Your trying so hard to show you know stuff unrelated to the topic it's pathetic.

Are you always like that ? If a friend ask you for tips to make a great cake do you go like : '' cake are too sweet and I prefer pulled pork. Many people do great cake you should ask them''

BTW I'm not buthurt with what you think of my design. Of course I know it's just average. I've seen enough youtuber's creation to know were I stand regarding quality of design and I do not aspire to achieve legendary builder status either. If you can't refrain from being so pedant, at least try to conceal it a bit.

[Enorats]

It's lame to use mods?

Originally posted by Chibbity:

Originally posted by Enorats:

Best tip? Use the "throttle controlled avionics" mod. It does what we'd do in real life and uses computers to independently control each engine's thrust in real time to achieve the effect you want.

Basically if you want to go forward it'll drop the max thrust on engines in front of your center of mass, allowing your front to tip foward. It'll even automatically stabalize your craft, hold altitude, hover, and otherwise act as the sort of computer assist autopilot that any sane person would expect in a VTOL craft.

Where's the fun in that? Lol.

Sounds like it makes it way too easy to be rewarding to me.

To each his own I guess.

It's not necessarily "easy", it's just the right way to go about it. Imagine trying to make a quadcopter drone fly without each engine's throttle being independently controlled by the computer in response to user input. It wouldn't even remotely work.

That's exactly what this mod does, and it solves the OP's problems in exactly the way we would in reality. As you said, to each his own.. but for me that's about as rewarding as it gets.

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by davaeron666:

Wow roofcat. You are so full of yourself it's exhausting to read you. With who exactly are you debating about hinges being real hinges or not or if they are ugly or not ? Who are you trying to convince when you say ''regular planes will always be better'' and what led you to think someone here gave a crap about YOUR preferences. I did not ask for your opinion about VTOL being a waste of mass and fuel as I took the time to write precedently I just felt like building one in sandbox. There are as many way to play and enjoy the game as there are players. I'm exploring the stock construction aspect that is all. Reading back your comments it seems you have some issues with self-confidence. Your trying so hard to show you know stuff unrelated to the topic it's pathetic.

Are you always like that ? If a friend ask you for tips to make a great cake do you go like : '' cake are too sweet and I prefer pulled pork. Many people do great cake you should ask them''

BTW I'm not buthurt with what you think of my design. Of course I know it's just average. I've seen enough youtuber's creation to know were I stand regarding quality of design and I do not aspire to achieve legendary builder status either. If you can't refrain from being so pedant, at least try to conceal it a bit.

I'm just not your friend nor parent. I don't have to encourage or white lie to you. VTOLs are rather bad planes and decent ones are hard to design. That's all. Not going to waste time packaging a bit of harsh physical reality in shiny bs.

[Roasty my Toasty]

Hey man I made a fairly big VTOL jet that unfortunately deleted cuz mod incompatibility that looked like a jet and flew just like a jet, and easily converted back to VTOL. It looked like a big MK2 jet and becomes a VTOL. Just believe!

[Chibbity]

Speaking of VTOL's and stock hinges.

Here's my latest 100% stock swing mounted engine "prototype."

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1280066450
Engines down for VTOL.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1280063477
Engines up for flight.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1280063324

Both engines swing from their pointing downward VTOL configuration to rearward for horizontal flight with the push of a button, even while flying.

[desrtfox071]

My suggestions:

Do not use jets. Use props or rockets.

Jets have a spool up time and a spool down time, and as such, will always lag behind in terms of control. This means that it will be very difficult to stabilize the VTOL. Both rockets and props have much more immediate response.

Second, if you really want to make big VTOLS, and especially if you insist on using Jets, get yourself a mod like TCA that will help you balance and tune individual throttle response to control input.

Here's a link to TCA (you should use CKAN to get it though):

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/97154-131-throttle-controlled-avionics/

[doum]

i have this one. work good. 14g turn. a bit hard to control. practice make it easyer and ok. that is for FUN.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1292528124
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1292528988