tips for eve lander design?

[Ant]

I am trying to design an eve lander, but have 2 problems, first, the lander is very unstable during reentry and tends to tumble, or point in a direction such that it is not protected by the heat shield. Second, I feel like I may need more delta-v, since I cannot guarantee that I will land on the highest point.
this is a screenshot of the lander
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1330229444

[AoD_lexandro]

For tumbling, you need to make the center of mass lower down and/or add more reaction wheel control to hold retrograge properly.

[Ant]

what about the delta-v?

[Chibbity]

Eve is one of, if not the hardest planet to return from.

You may want to content yourself with a landing, unless you are really determined.

[maculator]

My last lander exploded. It made a nice decend, proofed to be able to take off (i testet it with hyperedit) but it always exploded ~1500m above groud while going only 12m/s.

That planet is cursed, but I'll be back!

[RoofCat]

1. use aerodynamics to your advantage
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=860194624
Actually one 1+1 shield should be enough, if the balance is right. I was just testing stuff.

2. you have TWR 1 there, gl with that ;/

3. single strut has the mass of 50kg. No idea what are you doing there with probably 1t+ extra just from the struts.

4. KER doesn't know it, but you will have to launch from Eve in an atmosphere, that's 5 times thicker than the one on Kerbin. Do you think your aerodynamics are great for that?

5. more issues eventually. Don't go to Eve except one way with some probe or if you have done everything else already. It is the hardest trip in KSP.

[maestro]

Couldn't you just deploy and repack the chutes to stop the tumbling? Been forever since I went to Eve.

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by Maestro4202:

Couldn't you just deploy and repack the chutes to stop the tumbling? Been forever since I went to Eve.

those big chutes have terrible drag even while packed. And iirc they weren't exactly worth 3 radial chutes each. Rather bad ones. I used chutes on decouplers for Eve landing so I can drop most of them (except the one for Kerbin reentry) even before I start the launch from Eve and save a few tonns. Not trying to tell you should do it my way. You can try to find a better solution eventually.

I'm just seeing eventual high drag here and a flip situation with TWR being 1.01 or less at times. Fun spoiler - Dart engines are great for Eve, but they also don't have gimbal. Can't see fins either. Nor powerful reaction wheels.
So it is not a launcher, more like hovering and falling creation with high drag flipping it in case it manages to gain some speed against all odds. Just a guess of course, as I haven't seen it flying, but rather high probability.

[Ant]

Originally posted by RoofCat:

Originally posted by Maestro4202:

Couldn't you just deploy and repack the chutes to stop the tumbling? Been forever since I went to Eve.

those big chutes have terrible drag even while packed. And iirc they weren't exactly worth 3 radial chutes each. Rather bad ones. I used chutes on decouplers for Eve landing so I can drop most of them (except the one for Kerbin reentry) even before I start the launch from Eve and save a few tonns. Not trying to tell you should do it my way. You can try to find a better solution eventually.

I'm just seeing eventual high drag here and a flip situation with TWR being 1.01 or less at times. Fun spoiler - Dart engines are great for Eve, but they also don't have gimbal. Can't see fins either. Nor powerful reaction wheels.
So it is not a launcher, more like hovering and falling creation with high drag flipping it in case it manages to gain some speed against all odds. Just a guess of course, as I haven't seen it flying, but rather high probability.

That is exactly how it flies, any tips on maximizing delta v? I have been pretty much everywhere else in earlier versions, but never a successful flight to Eve.

[maculator]

I had plenty of successfull flights to eve, just can't return^^





All those brave souls :(

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by snakegamer:

That is exactly how it flies, any tips on maximizing delta v? I have been pretty much everywhere else in earlier versions, but never a successful flight to Eve.

If you have been everywhere, you should know by now how to improve it even further - get higher TWR for takeoff or more delta v with more stages.

I do have Eve lander designs, but I thought you aren't exactly asking about full scale spoilers yet.
So ... try harder? :)
Also I already shared some ideas how to save a few tonns for takeoff and recommended to take care of drag and SAS too.

[doum]

I did land many ship on EVE.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1336906651
My problem is to get off it. Land up to 500tons ship. light ship, medium weight ship.
To me landing is relatively easy to do now. But i never been able to lift off. Ship always land on a hill. And i cant correct it straight up fast enough when i lift off. So the ship turn and go back down and crash.
I even land that 500 tons Kerbin ssto knowing it wont lift off.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1336909316

[MechBFP]

Here is the beast I made that could get back to orbit (and that was it).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=862335728

Asparagus staging is an absolute requirement as you need every last dV you can possibly muster.

EDIT: You need about 8000 dV on average to get to orbit.

[doum]

Mehhh, i need to rethink my design. Thumb up.

[MechBFP]

Originally posted by snakegamer:

Originally posted by RoofCat:

those big chutes have terrible drag even while packed. And iirc they weren't exactly worth 3 radial chutes each. Rather bad ones. I used chutes on decouplers for Eve landing so I can drop most of them (except the one for Kerbin reentry) even before I start the launch from Eve and save a few tonns. Not trying to tell you should do it my way. You can try to find a better solution eventually.

I'm just seeing eventual high drag here and a flip situation with TWR being 1.01 or less at times. Fun spoiler - Dart engines are great for Eve, but they also don't have gimbal. Can't see fins either. Nor powerful reaction wheels.
So it is not a launcher, more like hovering and falling creation with high drag flipping it in case it manages to gain some speed against all odds. Just a guess of course, as I haven't seen it flying, but rather high probability.

That is exactly how it flies, any tips on maximizing delta v? I have been pretty much everywhere else in earlier versions, but never a successful flight to Eve.

You ideally want a high TWR (like 1.5), as the faster you get away from the surface, the sooner the atmosphere becomes thin, and the less overall DV you will need because of increased engine efficiency.
This is why my design had those vector engines. They get disposed of almost immediately, but they help me get to 5km or higher (can’t remember) a lot quicker, which makes the darts much more efficient. This craft was designed to make it to orbit from sea level.

[Gob]

You need to streamline that thing a lot. That's the key to Eve, not bolting on more dV, which usually just leads to more drag. You can get to orbit from sea level with <6kdV with a skinny craft.
That landercan will be creating huge drag. Use the mk1 capsule instead. Even though it weighs a little more, it is much more aerodynamic than that brick.
Use round intakes on the top of your stacks because they have very low drag.
Dump chutes and landing gear before liftoff.
Get rid of every bump and lump not essential to lifting. Including fuel ducts, struts, experiments, antenna, etc.
To keep the craft prograde during reentry attach a LOT of airbrakes on the top that you dump before liftoff.
Get off the ground quick (TWR ~2) and keep the AoA close to zero all the way through the atmosphere.