Best fire spell to complement Olexra's Flash Freeze?

[Vertibird]

Hello! I want to build a character that uses mageslayer set to maximize OFF. Mageslayer set gives lots of buffs to Flames of Ignaffar spell as well. Unfortunately that spell is channelling and has short range/aoe. Should I still use FoI spell or max something else like Callidon's Tempest? How about Big One, Devastation etc?
Thanks!

[Triple G]

If i wanted to make a guy with the set - i´d go for a cold damage nightblade.

You get -16% elemental (cold) resistance to veil of shadow, on top of the -25% it has by default on 10/10. I don´t know how reliable OFF is for RR, but there You also get -18% cold resistance. So You have - 59% cold RR without devotions (if OFF works well for it, which i doubt as the duration is shorter than the cooldown, and high lvl enemies will have an even shorter duration). But even without it - You´re at 41% RR - only from veil of shadows, which is always active, and overcapped it can be more - while You also have the stacking devotions.

You´re asking for a fire spell though. Range shouldn't matter much, because OFF is a radius around the guy, but the set buffs the Flames of Ignaffar as You already mentioned, mainly by adding elemental damage to it. I´m unsure what to think about elemental damage, because there´s no devotion which has stacking elemental RR, so You probably get multiple stacking sources for it, and the elemental one of top - which limits the devotion choices, and You need active abilities to proc them all...

[Vertibird]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Triple G:

If i wanted to make a guy with the set - i´d go for a cold damage nightblade.

You get -16% elemental (cold) resistance to veil of shadow, on top of the -25% it has by default on 10/10. I don´t know how reliable OFF is for RR, but there You also get -18% cold resistance. So You have - 59% cold RR without devotions (if OFF works well for it, which i doubt as the duration is shorter than the cooldown, and high lvl enemies will have an even shorter duration). But even without it - You´re at 41% RR - only from veil of shadows, which is always active, and overcapped it can be more - while You also have the stacking devotions.

You´re asking for a fire spell though. Range shouldn't matter much, because OFF is a radius around the guy, but the set buffs the Flames of Ignaffar as You already mentioned, mainly by adding elemental damage to it. I´m unsure what to think about elemental damage, because there´s no devotion which has stacking elemental RR, so You probably get multiple stacking sources for it, and the elemental one of top - which limits the devotion choices, and You need active abilities to proc them all...

Thanks, I want to utilize %100 Fire RR from OFF. Seems like Callidor's or FoI is good for the set.

[Triple G]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Vertibird:

Thanks, I want to utilize %100 Fire RR from OFF.

Yes - i thought this. I´m unsure if it was also You - but there was a similar thread in which Gnuff! mentioned that the RR of OFF only works for a certain duration and it wouldn´t work on many bosses and heroes (for which You need the RR), and the spell itself also says that the duration will be shorter when the enemy is resistant to freeze. Like if You have 100% fire RR - it´s nice, but it´s not worth much, when You only have it for less than 1 second - every 6 seconds. On paper it sounds nice that You would would have it for 4.5 seconds - every 6 seconds, but that´s not how it works later in the game. When the enemy has 100% freeze resistance, and flash freeze reduces 10% - it means the duration is 90% shorter. Which means instead of 4.5 seconds You´ll have it for like 0.5 seconds. You´re then more reliant on the general RR from the inquisitor (example), or the devotions. Even more so, when the enemy is immune to freeze, which means the RR wouldn´t work at all.

It´s probably great for all the trash mobs to clear them fast - but this would also work well without the RR. It counts on the bosses.

Like the downside of OFF - when used for RR - is that it´s bound to the freeze, so it´s conditional. If they´re not frozen there would be no RR, but just a one time damage. And because it´s cold - You could utilize cold damage better. While the set and veil of shadows give You 41% - perhaps 50% over capped. And You can get 25% from the devotion, plus 25% non stacking RR to also reach 100%, without counting in the RR from OFF, and without counting the other equipment which could add RR for such a build.

If You want to go fire damage, i´d go with a second class which provides reliable RR, and the devotion for it. While OFF is cold damage, but anything fire is fire damage, so You probably waste the cold damage of OFF, while with a cold build You can also use it for damage - and when dual wielding You probably also get the one or other hit in, even if they´re only frozen for a super short time (while some might be immune).

Like i´m for myself unsure how viable OFF is. With the set it´s perhaps somewhat good, if used for cold damage - in combination with the cold damage from the nightblade, which can also freeze stuff, so the reduced freeze resistance could be nice. You´d have great offense via the arcanist skills, and additional damage absorption. But for a fire build i´m not so sure.

Just saying - not that You´re disappointed later, because You don´t deal enough damage with the fire spells, because You relied on the 100% RR from OFF, but practically only have like 25% when the devotion procs. But You can always put on the combustion rings and the relic, for a -26% combined fire RR.

And anything which supports OFF supports cold damage (and nightblade, or sometimes necromancer) - not fire (except the set and a few MIs, which basically support elemental damage, so also fire.)

Also OFF has 100% fire RR without the set if You max it out, but the set adds -18% cold resistance to it.

[Vertibird]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Triple G:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Vertibird:

Thanks, I want to utilize %100 Fire RR from OFF.

Yes - i thought this. I´m unsure if it was also You - but there was a similar thread in which Gnuff! mentioned that the RR of OFF only works for a certain duration and it wouldn´t work on many bosses and heroes (for which You need the RR), and the spell itself also says that the duration will be shorter when the enemy is resistant to freeze. Like if You have 100% fire RR - it´s nice, but it´s not worth much, when You only have it for less than 1 second - every 6 seconds. On paper it sounds nice that You would would have it for 4.5 seconds - every 6 seconds, but that´s not how it works later in the game. When the enemy has 100% freeze resistance, and flash freeze reduces 10% - it means the duration is 90% shorter. Which means instead of 4.5 seconds You´ll have it for like 0.5 seconds. You´re then more reliant on the general RR from the inquisitor (example), or the devotions. Even more so, when the enemy is immune to freeze, which means the RR wouldn´t work at all.

It´s probably great for all the trash mobs to clear them fast - but this would also work well without the RR. It counts on the bosses.

Like the downside of OFF - when used for RR - is that it´s bound to the freeze, so it´s conditional. If they´re not frozen there would be no RR, but just a one time damage. And because it´s cold - You could utilize cold damage better. While the set and veil of shadows give You 41% - perhaps 50% over capped. And You can get 25% from the devotion, plus 25% non stacking RR to also reach 100%, without counting in the RR from OFF, and without counting the other equipment which could add RR for such a build.

If You want to go fire damage, i´d go with a second class which provides reliable RR, and the devotion for it. While OFF is cold damage, but anything fire is fire damage, so You probably waste the cold damage of OFF, while with a cold build You can also use it for damage - and when dual wielding You probably also get the one or other hit in, even if they´re only frozen for a super short time (while some might be immune).

Like i´m for myself unsure how viable OFF is. With the set it´s perhaps somewhat good, if used for cold damage - in combination with the cold damage from the nightblade, which can also freeze stuff, so the reduced freeze resistance could be nice. You´d have great offense via the arcanist skills, and additional damage absorption. But for a fire build i´m not so sure.

Just saying - not that You´re disappointed later, because You don´t deal enough damage with the fire spells, because You relied on the 100% RR from OFF, but practically only have like 25% when the devotion procs. But You can always put on the combustion rings and the relic, for a -26% combined fire RR.

And anything which supports OFF supports cold damage (and nightblade, or sometimes necromancer) - not fire (except the set and a few MIs, which basically support elemental damage, so also fire.)

Also OFF has 100% fire RR without the set if You max it out, but the set adds -18% cold resistance to it.

Thanks, I so much love OFF I'll try to utilize it. I see that against bosses freeze duration can be too short. In that case maybe instant damage spells like Callidor's Tempest would work against them.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

OFF building is relatively simple, you accept there are some enemies you wont be able to freeze at all/ever, some you will be able to freeze for a very brief time, and some you will be able to freeze for a bit longer
*now that freeze stacking shenanigans are over it means even the ones you can freeze you cant' perma freeze anymore (#NoFunAllowedZantai)
Mageslayer grants you a total -55 freeze res on a hardcapped OFF, that means any enemy with 155 freeze res or more; you will never be able to freeze
Bosses generally come in three flavours, either 118 freeze res, 133(135?), or 500, and a couple oddballs like Krieg at 108 and 148 in phase 1 or 2 respectively
Non special/non immunity heroes/trash generally is like in the 70-90s or less
OFF RR is directly tied to the freeze and duration, at an unmodified hardcap you get 6sec duration, so a 133res enemy would be frozen/RR impaced for 1.32seconds, 118res = 2.22sec etc
Key thing to remember is rando buffs or especially superman S tagged heroes/"unstoppable", which confer an increase in CC res, "unstoppable" heroes granting themselves and everyone around them 500 CC res, and as such becomes your worst enemy on an OFF build against a boss you'd otherwise normally be able to freeze.
Ofc as mentioned there will just simply always be some enemies you can't freeze, these come in all flavour from generic trash to heroes and bosses including a nemesis (and obviously superbosses i hope speak for themselves?)
Funnily enough it's not always the "themed" enemies you'd think that are immune to freeze, ofc Alamos and Mossi are freeze immune, but Ilgor and Karnath is not. Hilariously enough the generic rose bushes of Ugdebog are totally immune to it, guessing there is some antifreeze in that jungle groundwater

Anyway, just make your build with two notions in mind; that bosses don't perma freeze, and some wont freeze at all, so char doesn't get caught off guard or without the means to handle such fights, then a Mageslayer OFF build is totally fine (even if you lose some utility in some fights).

[Vertibird]

Początkowo opublikowane przez gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

OFF building is relatively simple, you accept there are some enemies you wont be able to freeze at all/ever, some you will be able to freeze for a very brief time, and some you will be able to freeze for a bit longer
*now that freeze stacking shenanigans are over it means even the ones you can freeze you cant' perma freeze anymore (#NoFunAllowedZantai)
Mageslayer grants you a total -55 freeze res on a hardcapped OFF, that means any enemy with 155 freeze res or more; you will never be able to freeze
Bosses generally come in three flavours, either 118 freeze res, 133(135?), or 500, and a couple oddballs like Krieg at 108 and 148 in phase 1 or 2 respectively
Non special/non immunity heroes/trash generally is like in the 70-90s or less
OFF RR is directly tied to the freeze and duration, at an unmodified hardcap you get 6sec duration, so a 133res enemy would be frozen/RR impaced for 1.32seconds, 118res = 2.22sec etc
Key thing to remember is rando buffs or especially superman S tagged heroes/"unstoppable", which confer an increase in CC res, "unstoppable" heroes granting themselves and everyone around them 500 CC res, and as such becomes your worst enemy on an OFF build against a boss you'd otherwise normally be able to freeze.
Ofc as mentioned there will just simply always be some enemies you can't freeze, these come in all flavour from generic trash to heroes and bosses including a nemesis (and obviously superbosses i hope speak for themselves?)
Funnily enough it's not always the "themed" enemies you'd think that are immune to freeze, ofc Alamos and Mossi are freeze immune, but Ilgor and Karnath is not. Hilariously enough the generic rose bushes of Ugdebog are totally immune to it, guessing there is some antifreeze in that jungle groundwater :claugh:

Anyway, just make your build with two notions in mind; that bosses don't perma freeze, and some wont freeze at all, so char doesn't get caught off guard or without the means to handle such fights, then a Mageslayer OFF build is totally fine (even if you lose some utility in some fights).

Thanks for the very comprehensive answer! I acknowledge that OFF will not be efficient against some enemies. Any fire spell to complement OFF? Would maxed Callidor's work against bosses?

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

depends what the "real" question is, which skill would be best overall, or which skill would be best to technically take advantage of OFF itself
the best way to utilize current OFF or "non perma freeze version" would be dots/Burn, since "at most" you're going to get about 1-2secs RR use from OFF a skill like FoI wouldn't really benefit much the remainder, but dot mechanics makes Burn a prime use.
However, dots/burn would also not be great "in general", because as mentioned, you want something that is good even when OFF is not counting, which then *would* be something like FoI that gives stable and good dps (and can ofc heal/leech)
(and the way dots/burn mechanic works means you technically want "loads" of burn skills, which then pairs less well with a spamable like FoI that wanna be interrupted as little as possible, and is also an expensive point investment 😅)
Sooo kinda your choice, general utility vs situational use
(and keep in mind the way dot mechanics work means you need all your burns to go off/be applied *after* OFF is applied, but before it runs out)

[Vertibird]

Początkowo opublikowane przez gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

depends what the "real" question is, which skill would be best overall, or which skill would be best to technically take advantage of OFF itself
the best way to utilize current OFF or "non perma freeze version" would be dots/Burn, since "at most" you're going to get about 1-2secs RR use from OFF a skill like FoI wouldn't really benefit much the remainder, but dot mechanics makes Burn a prime use.
However, dots/burn would also not be great "in general", because as mentioned, you want something that is good even when OFF is not counting, which then *would* be something like FoI that gives stable and good dps (and can ofc heal/leech)
(and the way dots/burn mechanic works means you technically want "loads" of burn skills, which then pairs less well with a spamable like FoI that wanna be interrupted as little as possible, and is also an expensive point investment 😅)
Sooo kinda your choice, general utility vs situational use
(and keep in mind the way dot mechanics work means you need all your burns to go off/be applied *after* OFF is applied, but before it runs out)

Thanks. I guess I'll have hard time against bosses lategame. I'll try to build something with Callidor's Tempest.