Best ARPG

[Grim Revan]

Obviously my opinion, but I really think Crate has done a great job so far on this game. Especially considering they are only a team of 6. I have been following Grim Dawn's developement for over a year now and have had Alpha access since it was initially released. Many already know, but for those of you unaware Crate Entertainment was started by Aurthur Bruno who left Ironlore and worked out a deal to get the creation tools used to make Titan Quest because Ironlore had zero interest in making further games of this genre. Grim Dawn is being hand crafted by people who have a genuine love for this type of game. I am still relatively new to PC gaming and actually learned about Grim Dawn online before playing TQ. I bought TQ just so I could get an idea and feel for the comparisions being made by fans and the developers. I was blown away at the possible 45 classes from the 9 masteries. There is so much room for different playstyles and Grim Dawn carries that over with more polish on the classes.

Things Grim Dawn excels at:
- Epic and varied loot
- Smooth gameplay
- Dark atmosphere
- Balanced and varied classes
- Synergy between classes and loot
- TQ ragdoll physics


I will not focus on negatives because the game still has much developement ahead and Crate has done a great job of updating and addressing the game's problems, so I am quite forgiving of any minor annoyances I may have which so far have only really been bugs and glitches.

The loot is fun and offers a lot of different build concepts. I don't know if there is a technical term for this build, but my favorite so far has been using a Pyromancer (Demolitionist + Occultist) with the focus on my offence being getting hit. I dubbed it my PRICK build. Every piece om y equipment supports retaliation damage and/or hp regen. I even got a rare Warden Shield drop that causes a shockwave that does physical damage and knockdown upon me being struck. I have always tinckered with this concept on other ARPGs, but Grim Dawn was the 1st it actually worked well on.

This is also the 1st ARPG I have played that does something amazingly simple. I can switch targets without constantly clicking. After a recent update I found I had to go in the options and unclick the Classic Targeting option to enable this feature. Now some of you PC veterans may laugh at me for this as I am sure you are skilled enough to not be concerned with this, but I always hated using a ranged char and accidentally clicking the ground instead of the mob and end up running towards my death. Now I can just hold down the mouse button and continue my attack untill I highlight another target. This also allows me to avoid clicking on a lot of basic white loot drops in the middle of combat.

I have personally been a fan of dark atmosphere games since Persona 1 on the PSone. Grim Dawn has a dark and gritty vibe to the game that kind of reminds me of the Fallout series. The backgrounds are bleak and help add contrast to the vibrant and colorful skill effects. That touch of contrast just adds a nice visual style to the game.

As of now we have 4 base classes to choose from with a total of 10 when you add in the possible hybrid classes. Aslo given that the same class can be built in a vast number of ways I think it is safe to say there is a lot of room for varied builds with much more to follow. I have tried many classes and even some different aspects within the same class so far and none of them felt lackluster on their own. I was very happy to see that Crate greatly improved the summoning system with Occultist. Anyone who played any pet class on TQ knows that pets began to feel lackluster fast. Now adding skill points just enhances the base stats of the summons which now level up with your char. So far I have built a variety of casters, dps, tanks, pets, and now pricks. I believe Arcanist is gonna be the meat and potato spell slinger. Occultist has some, but I know many dedicated to mage builds want to wreak havoc with bigger spells for groups and focused death beams for tough single targets.

Now one of the things I have always hated is when you get an idea for a build from the class skills and struggle to find the gear to support it which is one reason why my Prick build was always so lack luster on previous games. So far the drops seem pretty varied and it is usually not too long before you find loot to suppot your focus. I like how the inventory in the stores is now color coded so I can search to see if they have something I can use easier. It's little things like that I appreciate.

Last but certainly not least is my love of the ragdoll physics. TQ made me fall in love with this. There is no satisfying reward for overkilling the hell out of a mob than to see it's corpse being blasted across the screen. I am not sure if the physics reach the same lovable absurdity that TQ reached (1 shot a Saytr over a mountain), but I have seen several bodies flying across the screen. I don't believe the ragdoll physics were present in the initial alpha release when I was playing a heavy single hit damage dps Soldier. I think my highest single hit back then was just under 2k which I can probably easily top now and I do not remember the bodies being flung around at the level they are presently. I do plan to maximize the ragdoll with Blademaster (Nightblade + Soldier), but if that does not fufill my corpse catapulting needs I will respec my old Soldier if needed.

So those who are still on the fence about Grim Dawn......go watch gameplay videos on Youtube. You can even do a search for Crate Entertainment or Arthur Bruno and see interviwes talking about the vision behind this game. I really want to see Grim Dawn succeed and Crate Entertainment become established as a developer. I am tired of souless companies like Activision, Crapom....Capcom, and Square Enix to name a few just milk the ♥♥♥♥ out of their fans. Obviously a game needs to make money, but when the whole purpose for a game's existence is a profit margin then inspiration and inovation starts to get lost over time. This game is being made by a small handfull of people. I want to see what they can do with some success behind them. When Blizzard made D3 many were dissapointed because the heart and soul of Diablo, the title that propelled the ARPG genre, seemed to be missing. Despite that I think there is a lot that was done nicely on D3, but without the essence that made the series great, without a real leap of innovation of that essence......well we all know how many of us felt. If you loved TQ then this is a no brainer. If you love the ARPG genre this is a no brainer. If you are still reading this.......maybe you should buy it.

I hope Athur and everyone at Crate knows that many of us love what has been done so far and we look forward to the day when we can join each other in Co-op and rape undead face.

Also, if any grammar Nazis wanna pick apart what I assume will be several mispelled words somewhere in here, I wrote this at 3a and I did not profread any of it......sorry I am lazy. :)

[Skyforger]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Le Noob:

I know it a good game, but the artstyle is really what kills it for me. The low poly cartoon style of the game just completely fails to pull me into the world like the Grim Dawn, D2 and PoE artstyle can.

I do hope they keep releasing TL games because I want more soundtracks from Matt Uelmen. :P

Another really great arpg with the style you like is van helsing. I loved that arpg so much, the atmoshere/story and music was tear worthy. Not great for length though, will be one or two playthroughs and that's it, not much farming either.

Though it was never meant for that, such a great story driven arpg though. With an amazing artistic style to it.

[Spyre]

Nice review. I loved Titan Quest and am also enjoying this game. Lots of fun hacking and slashing! I find the combat personally more satisfying and enjoyable than the combat of Path of Exile. Very enjoyableso far.

[Grim Revan]

I did not set out to write a review. I know a lot of people are on the fence on Grim Dawn and just wanted to give an honest opinion from someone who is a new fan of this genre. The ARPG genre is almost nonexistant on consoles. The game that hooked me was Torchlight when it was released on the XBL marketplace. Since then I have been trying to catch up with rest of the world in this genre. I do not have have the extensive history that many PC gamers have with D2. I would not say Grim Dawn is a possible contender to be the best of all time because I don't have the background to say that. I can say that in only in it's infancy of alpha it has been more satisfying than any other game of this genre for me. Another title I have been playing is How to Survive. It is a hybrid ARPG and Survival Horror. The main story is insanely short. There is not a vast amount of content, but what it does well is the combat. It actually plays really well with a controller too for those who want to play an ARPG with one. There are so many lil game mechanic gems that I hope gets both carried on to future title by it's developer and/or finely replicated by others. I am so happy I have made the switch to pc gaming and have given the finger to the console wars. lol!

[Dragonhunter]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Grim_Revan:

Obviously my opinion, but I really think Crate has done a great job so far on this game. Especially considering they are only a team of 6. I have been following Grim Dawn's developement for over a year now and have had Alpha access since it was initially released. Many already know, but for those of you unaware Crate Entertainment was started by Aurthur Bruno who left Ironlore and worked out a deal to get the creation tools used to make Titan Quest because Ironlore had zero interest in making further games of this genre. Grim Dawn is being hand crafted by people who have a genuine love for this type of game.

Most developers who make games love what they do, it's their baby, their creation. That also includes Baldree, Max Schaefer and Erich Schaefer over at Runic Games. Also it wasn't that they weren't interested, they had plenty of interest but they ran out of money while creating Titan Quest. They ended up closing Ironlore before Titan Quest ever hit the shelves. A true "consecration after death" like artists of old. In my experience, everyone who make ARPGs have a genuine love for this genre. You should also know that most devs in the ARPGs genre all know each other and sometime even work together. Fans might like to argue that this or that ARPG is better but as it turns out PoE team, Crate Team, Runic Games team, and Blizzard team all know each other and sometimes even meet up for dinner. So yea, it's more actually like a big old family, they just have each their own view and interpretation of what an ARPG should play or feel like. Runic Games is about 20 people who got ridiculously successful, PoE is also an indie team and they are even more impressive because they made a F2P MMO with no P2W policy or gameplay. I think we need all these different types of ARPGs, just like in shooters, you need arcady ones like Serious Sam, Bulletstorm. You need old school ones like Shadow Warrior, Doom or Quake. You need modern ones like Battlefield or COD and you also need futuristic ones like Halo. It's like getting to enjoy one big genre but in very different ways.

[Shogs]

Just to expand on Titan's Quest / Iron Lore..

with Titan Quest, the lack of ongoing support stems from the fact that the publisher THQ owned the game and basically abandoned it shortly after release as their corporate strategy shifted away from PC, which they decided at the time was a dying platform. In fact, THQ only reluctantly funded Immortal Throne development out of obligation because the expansion was built into the original contract for Titan Quest.

With the release of Immortal Throne, Iron Lore was a studio struggling to survive and that made it difficult to find time to support a game that they didn't own and weren't earning any royalties on. I did actually advocate putting out one more small patch but the owners felt like they couldn't afford to put any people on it unpaid and I can't say I really blame them. While I didn't want to leave the game like that, when you're struggling to make ends meet, its tough to think about investing your own time/money to the benefit of a publisher that is earning profit off the game and not paying you anything for it.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=124779#post124779

[Grim Revan]

Opprinnelig skrevet av DCA Dragonhunter:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Grim_Revan:

Obviously my opinion, but I really think Crate has done a great job so far on this game. Especially considering they are only a team of 6. I have been following Grim Dawn's developement for over a year now and have had Alpha access since it was initially released. Many already know, but for those of you unaware Crate Entertainment was started by Aurthur Bruno who left Ironlore and worked out a deal to get the creation tools used to make Titan Quest because Ironlore had zero interest in making further games of this genre. Grim Dawn is being hand crafted by people who have a genuine love for this type of game.

Most developers who make games love what they do, it's their baby, their creation. That also includes Baldree, Max Schaefer and Erich Schaefer over at Runic Games. Also it wasn't that they weren't interested, they had plenty of interest but they ran out of money while creating Titan Quest. They ended up closing Ironlore before Titan Quest ever hit the shelves. A true "consecration after death" like artists of old. In my experience, everyone who make ARPGs have a genuine love for this genre. You should also know that most devs in the ARPGs genre all know each other and sometime even work together. Fans might like to argue that this or that ARPG is better but as it turns out PoE team, Crate Team, Runic Games team, and Blizzard team all know each other and sometimes even meet up for dinner. So yea, it's more actually like a big old family, they just have each their own view and interpretation of what an ARPG should play or feel like. Runic Games is about 20 people who got ridiculously successful, PoE is also an indie team and they are even more impressive because they made a F2P MMO with no P2W policy or gameplay. I think we need all these different types of ARPGs, just like in shooters, you need arcady ones like Serious Sam, Bulletstorm. You need old school ones like Shadow Warrior, Doom or Quake. You need modern ones like Battlefield or COD and you also need futuristic ones like Halo. It's like getting to enjoy one big genre but in very different ways.

I completely agree on that. We need a good variety of any given genre. I have enjoyed different aspects of all of the different ARPGs. There is no perfect game. It is through these many different concepts that a genre can evolve over the years. I wish I would of gotten into game design and coding because me with oatmeal, coffee, and toilet time comes up with some unique game mechanics. Of course reality would probably be not finacially viable to produce. I remember hearing in an interview with Eric Shaefer that they occasionally halt production on all projects and have a set amount of time to just brainstorm new ideas and see what they can make in that time to keep from getting into a routine and keep new ideas firing. I am still waiting for another ARPG to make an open world like Sacred. Sacred 2's world was just huge and vast. It is always nice to just say I am tired of following the quest line and just wander in some other location. I would like to see exploration make a comback in ARPGs, but I am sure there are always design challenges to approach an open world. For some reason I want to see an ARPG set in the Dragon Quest universe where your pets would be certain monsters from the DQ universe. DQ was my 1st taste of the RPG genre as a kid, so it is probably why it comes to mind. I know they made an MMO of the series, but I think an ARPG in that universe could be interesting if done right.

[DeMasked]

Funny you should mention "artstyle" it was one of the reasons why I didn't get into both TL2 and PoE, one being too cartoony and the other being a bit bland when it came to the environment. I played TL2 more then Poe and I found some of the features were pretty cool to see but I soon got disintrested since I was originally playing with my brother who started to play a different game.

[Kerozinn]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Le Noob:

I know it a good game, but the artstyle is really what kills it for me. The low poly cartoon style of the game just completely fails to pull me into the world like the Grim Dawn, D2 and PoE artstyle can.

I do hope they keep releasing TL games because I want more soundtracks from Matt Uelmen. :P

well i see u bought it ;)

[Le Noob]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Kerozinn:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Le Noob:

I know it a good game, but the artstyle is really what kills it for me. The low poly cartoon style of the game just completely fails to pull me into the world like the Grim Dawn, D2 and PoE artstyle can.

I do hope they keep releasing TL games because I want more soundtracks from Matt Uelmen. :P

well i see u bought it ;)

Of course I did. I wouldn't say that I didn't like it if I had not played the game. :P

[Nahz]

PoE artstyle pulls you in? Claymation no pants?

[powbam]

I've played all the arpg's and the first thing I did after the update and I realized I had to click each mob was to go into options and switch it off :) I like how they were doing it more. If I need finer control I simply hold down shift. Eezpz.

[powbam]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Nocturne:

Its to early to tell yet, we don't have any proper end game content or any idea about the competitive play yet to know how this will last in the long run.

First impressions are strong amongst everyone including myself though, but FAR to early to call anything.

Titan Quest. Mods. That's all you need to know about your so called "replayability". Grim will go the same path.
Competitive play? Hmmph. Wrong genre.

[Skyforger]

Opprinnelig skrevet av powbam:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Nocturne:

Its to early to tell yet, we don't have any proper end game content or any idea about the competitive play yet to know how this will last in the long run.

First impressions are strong amongst everyone including myself though, but FAR to early to call anything.

Titan Quest. Mods. That's all you need to know about your so called "replayability". Grim will go the same path.
Competitive play? Hmmph. Wrong genre.

Then why Is PoEs competitive race ladders VERY popular? =)
It was just never introduced to the genre, it has been now and taken off big time with PoE.

[Grim Revan]

I myself am not a competitive player as my schedule is kind of random at times and I am more of a co-op player. That said, there is millions of players that crave and thrive on pvp across all genres. I think pvp is valid on any genre if it is fun to do. People just love to compete against each other. Look at DOTA 2's numbers. I know someone will argue it is a different genre, but by a fine line that can be broken with the right developer.

[Ghostlight]

OP have you played PoE and how does GD compare?

btw Torchlight 2 is only "cartoony" on the first Act. It gets pretty damn dark later on.