Why is the Forge considered Grim Dawn's slot machine?

[bloodbearhighking]

The Forge has a long history in Titan Quest franchise games. The concept of the Forge, while not entirely implemented until recently has been an exciting evolution. The Titan Quest expansion pack Immortal Throne came with an Item called an 'Artifact' that required a recipe of various items to be collected and then taken to an “Enchanter” who would combine the ingredients to create the individual Artifact for the player.

The Artifact would then lend periodical enhancements to the overall character's being. Artifact's come in 5 level increments, starting at level five. So at every 5 levels there would be more Artifact's to build, that did more and more to enhance the character.

At levels 15 and 20 you had 'Touch of a Fool' and 'Song of the Siren', respectfully. They provided protection in the form of Poison and Pierce resistances. This Artifact concept was then ported over to Lilith D2 1.64 and the Lilith Masteries.

There was a problem with the 'Artifact' concept from the player perspective. Costly, timing consuming, a shortfall in benefits to the player. Unlike the aforementioned examples, very few of the Artifacts were worth using but they were amazing to see.

From my own experiences in playing those games, I had a Toon that housed all the Artifacts from level 5 to level 30, one Toon that housed level 35 to level 45, and another Toon that housed level 50 to level 60, where the Artifacts capped out.

The Forge in Grim Dawn is a definite improvement in this concept. Within the last 50 hours of game play I have personally dropped over a $100,000 iron bits in the Forge.

The first thing you do when have realized that you have acquired a Forge, is go and explore inside, to see what the Forge can do for you and the characters you may create in the future. I was impressed. Now this has possibilities.

Empowered Relics caught my attention first. The choice between 'Calamity' and 'Ruination wasn't difficult. I chose Calamity because it randomly unleashes burst of searing brimstone, in eight directions at once. So when your opponents are attacking you from all sides – this comes in handy.

However, there is a problem. One, it cost $8,000 iron bits. The ingredients required are completed components: Searing Ember, Polished Emerald, and Chipped Claw. Okay, I got them. What else? 'Tainted Brain Matter'. Okay, that one I haven't seen yet and I won't, until I reach the 'Warden's Office'. The relic can be applied at level 18 but you won't reach the Warden's Office until you reach level 20 or better.

So basically this is an enhancement for the second portion of the game map not the first, where you could really use it. The Empowered Relics, Mythical Relics, Transcendent Relics, Components, and Consumables are probably the only items in the Forge where you get what you pay for. Like ordering dinner at a Casino.

Shall we move on to creating actual weapons and gear for your character using the Forge?

The first time, I used the Forge to create better equipment and weapons for my character, I felt I could not find adequate items by using either of the available Dealers. My experience was 50/50.

Prices in the Forge are dependent on the level of the character standing in the Forge, since you won't actually reach the Forge until around level 20 to 25, a transaction with the Blacksmith will cost approximately $1,500 iron bits per transaction. If you access the Forge at level 35 the cost for a transaction will be $2,225 iron bits.

This is where it gets complicated. It is my opinion, that the Blacksmith can read your character when it steps into the Forge. Spooky, eh? It is my understanding that the Blacksmith creates the item you want, based upon your choice in a randomize manner. Based upon the character you are at that moment. You may get the item you want or you may not. Pull the lever and watch the dials spin around. See the pretty colors?

To create gear for your character it will cost you two pieces of scrap and the required amount of iron.

The first time I went to the Forge I was fully equipped with all my gear and weapons. I made five items, of which I could only use one. Slot machine. However, when went and tried to exchange an old item with the new item, I found out that I couldn't use the new item – so I lost all of my iron bits. I just didn't know it. I was depressed and decided not to use the Forge for a while.

It took a little while for me to figure out what had gone wrong.

When the Blacksmith read my character, it read my level and it read how much Physique, Cunning, and Spirit I had associated with my character, while I was fully clothed. So when I went to exchange the piece, the Physique that was attached to that old item was lost and there wasn't enough Physique to cover the new item.

Through some trial and error I figured out that it would be smarter to buy individual pieces, by removing the item from my character before having the Blacksmith, create something new. So that whatever amount of Physique that was associated to the item didn't conflict with the item, I wanted the Blacksmith to build.

I recently put this strategy into practice when I tried to build better equipment for a level 35 Blademaster. I needed Chainmail, Shoulderguards, Handguards, and Heavy Treads. I ended up building 12 items, four of which I could use. It cost me nearly $50,000 iron bits and that wasn't even the worst part.

What did I get for my iron bits?

Heavy Chainmail of Scorching 217 Armor magic/yellow
5 Fire Damage, +18% Fire Damage, 5% Pierce Resistances

Hinterland Shoulderplate of Ulzuin's Flame 181 Armor rare/green
+9% Fire Damage, +12% Burn Damage, +12 Physique, +2 Health Regeneration, 3% Pierce Resistance, 16 Fire Retaliation

Maniacal Heavy Handguards of the Boar 132 Armor rare/green
+11% Chaos Damage, +10% Poison Damage, +23 Physique, +35 Spirit, +6 Offensive, 6% Increase Armor

Rampage Heavy Treads 171 Armor rare/green
1-5 Physical Damage, +8% Physical Damage, +10% Bleeding Damage, +10 Offensive, 3% Increase Armor

I wasn't exactly happy with these choices but I was running out of iron bits, so my experience is limited.

The bad part is the re-sale value of items built by the Blacksmith, is in the double digits, less than 40 iron bits. Each one of the items that I asked the Blacksmith make for me, had cost me a considerable amount. Each item costs $2,225 iron bits plus two items of Scraps which costs $1,600 iron bits or $3,825 iron bits for each item and 40 iron bits or less at re-sale.

Did I achieve value?

Four acceptable items cost: $8,900 iron bits + $6,400 scrap + $15,300 iron bits
Eight unacceptable items cost: $12,800 iron bits + $17,800 scrap = $30,600 iron bits

My experience using the Forge to better my chance to succeed has cost me: $45,900 iron bits. Don't tell anyone.

It may not be economically feasible to use the Forge under these conditions. You decide.

There is a better than even chance, that every time that you use to the Forge, you are going to get...to your heart's content, one way or another. Good Luck.


King David The Beloved
High King British Common Wealth Empire
I Am At 224 Hours

[DeMasked]

Don't buy scrap material unless you need it to complete the early quest. Otherwise just farm for it and it's pretty easy to accumulate.

That being said I don't think crafting or buying from the vendors is the emphasis in getting items - farming is. Crafting and vendor buying can work and you can get quite good items from doing so but yes it is rather expensive so either you need to know what you are looking for - or save crafted items/vendor bought items for either your character or later characters.

Crafting yellow items can also produce green items as is stated in the description and yes it's more of a gambling thing. I've made some decent items in the past.

Considering you had 4 items that you could use all being green items - and the fact that green items sell for quite a bit at the vendors usually at 20-30k each I think you got a decent deal. Even if your character won't need them you can save them for other characters later on.

edit: Plus you can find recipes like green or blue items that can be helpful though blue items are a bit more costly while green items are reasonable considering you get the base stats and then a chance at a prefix, suffix or both.

[powbam]

Note: This is not Titan Quest, nor is it tied to Titan Quest in any way whatsoever besides the fact that they make use of the same engine. This is Grim Dawn.

[DeMasked]

What cost you 45k iron could have costed you 20k iron instead if you didn't buy the scrap material. Kyzogg the Reanimator drops 1 100% of the time, Old Dump also spawns scrap heap which can yield scrap as well. Slith Refuse breakables can also yield scrap - plus rotting soldiers. The cave in Old Dump with the rat dudes can also have scrap heap spawns as well.

A ton of places can give scrap. Essentially you shouldn't buy scrap unless you absolutely have to like for the helping hand quest in that you need 5 scrap to complete it and you have like 4/5.

Plus later on in act 2 you can get the dismantle ability to break items down into scrap and components with the use of dynamite.

[CatPerson]

Why is the Forge considered Grim Dawn's slot machine?

Because these days, every arpg has to have one. ;)

...Grim Dawn's basic weapon/armor item crafting really reminds me of Diablo3's (upon 1st release, dunno what D3 did with it later). Which was just about as random and almost as generally useless for a chr. as one is progressing through the game. Farming is definitely the route one gets most gear ... but if the RNG gods are unkind, farming can at least get you the ingredients to use the craft slot machine to try to get something useful.

Btw, I found Calamity to be very useful even far past the Warden. Try it and see.

[realdead_man]

This is a SMALL list of all the mods for 1998's UNREAL, just like Grim Dawn is a mod for Titan Quest!

Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island — (2001) Digital Extremes
Brother Bear — (2003) KnowWonder Digital Mediaworks
Clive Barker's Undying — (2001) Dreamworks Interactive
Deus Ex — (2000) Ion Storm
Deus Ex: The Conspiracy — (2002) Ion Storm[16][17]
Dr. Brain's Thinking Games: Action/Reaction — (1999) Knowledge Adventure
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets — (2002) KnowWonder Digital Mediaworks
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in the U.S) — (2001) KnowWonder Digital Mediaworks
Mobile Forces — (2002) Rage Software
Nerf Arena Blast — (1999) Visionary Media, Inc.
New Legends — (2002) Infinite Machine[18]
Rune — (2000) Human Head Studios
Rune: Halls of Valhalla — (2001) Human Head Studios]]
Rune: Viking Warlord — (2001) Human Head Studios
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Fallen — (2000) The Collective[19]
Star Trek: The Next Generation: Klingon Honor Guard — (1998) MicroProse[20]
Tactical Ops: Assault on Terror — (2002) Kamehan Studios
TNN Outdoors Pro Hunter — (1998) DreamForge Intertainment
Twin Caliber — (2003) Rage Software
Unreal Mission Pack: Return to Na Pali (Story) — (1999) Legend Entertainment
Unreal Tournament — (1999) Epic Games
Unrealty — (2000) Perilith Industrielle[21]
Virtual Reality Notre Dame: A Real Time Construction — (1999) Digitalo Studios
The Wheel of Time — (1999) Legend Entertainment
X-COM: Enforcer — (2001) MicroProse
Unreal Engine 2fEdit
Advent Rising — (2005) GlyphX Games
America's Army v1.0 ~ v2.8.2 — (2002~2007) U.S. Army
America's Army:Rise of a Soldier — (2005) Ubisoft
Brothers In Arms: Road to Hill 30 — (2005) Gearbox Software
Brothers In Arms: Earned in Blood — (2005) Gearbox Software
Brothers In Arms: D-Day — (2006) Gearbox Software
Brothers In Arms: Double Time — (2007) Gearbox Software
Close Quarters Conflict — (2007) Direct Action Games
Combat: Task Force 121 — (2005) Direct Action Games[22][23]
Dead Man's Hand — (2004) Human Head Studios
Desert Thunder — (2003) Brainbox Games
Deus Ex: Invisible War — (2003) Ion Storm
Devastation — (2003) Digitalo Studios
Duke Nukem Forever — (????) 3D Realms
Exteel — (2005) NCsoft[24]
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban — (2004) KnowWonder Digital Mediaworks[25]
Huang Yi Online — (2007) Soft World
Inferno — (2007) FXLabs Studios
Jinyong Online 2 — (2005~2007) Soft World
Kung Fu: Deadly Arts — (2006) Bedlam Games
LandMass — (2006~2007) WayPoint
Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events — (2004) Adrenium Games
Lineage II — (2002~2007) NC Soft
Magic: The Gathering - Battlegrounds — (2003) Atari
Magna Carta: Crimson Stigmata — (2004) Softmax
Magna Carta Portable — (2006) Softmax
Marine Heavy Gunner: Vietnam — (2004) Brainbox Games
Marine Sharpshooter 3 — (2007) Groove Games
Men of Valor — (2004) Vivendi Universal
Open Season — Ubisoft
Pariah — (2005) Digital Extremes[26][27]
Postal² — (2003) Running With Scissors, Inc.
Priston Tale 2 — (2006~2007) Yedang Online
Ragnarok Online 2: The Gate of the World (MMORPG) — (2007) Gravity
Redneck Kentucky and The Next Generation Chickens — (2007) City Interactive
Red Steel — (2006) Ubisoft
Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 — (2006) Tripwire Interactive[28][29]
Redneck Kentucky and the Next Generation Chickens - (2007) City Interactive
new Samba de Amigo — (2008) Gearbox Software
San Guo Online — (2007) Kingsoft
Sephiroth — (2001~2007) IMagic Entertainment
Shadow Ops: Red Mercury — (2004) Zombie Studios
Shark Tale — (2004) Amaze Entertainment
Shrek 2 — (2004) KnowWonder
Spider-Man 2 — (2004) Fizz Factor
Star Wars: Republic Commando — (2005) LucasArts[30][31]
StoneAge2 — (2007) Kingsoft
Surf's Up — (2007) Ubisoft
SWAT 4 — (2005) Irrational Games[32]
The Chronicles of Spellborn — (2006~2007) Spellborn International
The Regiment — (2006) Kuju Entertainment
Thief: Deadly Shadows — (2004) Ion Storm
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Athena Sword — (2004) Ubisoft[33]
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow (Xbox only) — (2004) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield — (2003) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell — (2002) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow — (2004) Ubisoft]
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory — (2005) Ubisoft[34]
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent — (2006) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Essentials — (2006) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction - (2008) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2 — (2006) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter — (2006) Ubisoft
Tribes: Vengeance — (2004) Irrational Games
Unreal II: The Awakening — (2003) Legend Entertainment
Unreal Championship — (2002) Digital Extremes
Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict — (2005) Epic Games
Unreal Tournament 2003 — (2002) Digital Extremes
Unreal Tournament 2004 — (2004) Digital Extremes
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes — (2007) Sigil Games Online
World War II Combat: Road to Berlin — (2005) Direct Action Games
World War II Combat: Iwo Jima — (2006) Direct Action Games[35]
Warpath — (2006) Digital Extremes[36]
XIII — (2003) Ubisoft
Unreal Engine 3Edit
Aliens — (2009) Gearbox Software
America's Army 3.0 — (2008) US Army
American Mcgee's Grimm - (2008) Spicy Horse
APB — (2008) Webzen
Army of Two - (2008) Electronic Arts
A.V.A. - (2007) Pmang
Black College Football: BCFX: The Xperience - (2007) Nerjyzed Entertainment
Black Powder Red Earth - (2007) Echelon Software
Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway — (2008) Gearbox Software[37]
BioShock - (2007) 2K Boston/2K Australia
BlackSite: Area 51 — (2007) Midway Austin
Borderlands - (2008) Gearbox Software
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare (2012) - Torn Banner Studios
Crimecraft - (2008) Vogster Entertainment
DC Comics MMO — (TBA) Sony Online Entertainment
Dead Space - (2008) Redwood Shore Studio
Earth No More — (2009) Recoil Games / 3D Realms
Empire - (TBA) Chair Entertainment
Elveon — (2007) 10tacle Studios[38]
End - (TBA) Faramix Enterprises[39]
Fatal Inertia — (2007) Koei[40]
Free Realm - (TBA) Sony Online Entertainment
Frontlines: Fuel of War — (2008) Kaos Studios
Fury — (2007) Auran[41]
Gears of War — (2006) Epic Games
Global Agenda — (TBA) Hi-Rez Studios[42]
Hail to the Chimp — (2008) Wideload Games [43]
Hei$t - (2007) inXile Entertainment
Hour of Victory — (2007) Midway Games
Huxley — (2008) Webzen Games[44]
Interstellar Marines - (2008) Zero Point Software [45]
Lost Odyssey — (2007) Mistwalker[46]
Mass Effect — (2007) BioWare[47]
Magna Carta 2 - (TBA) Softmax
Medal of Honor: Airborne — (2007) Electronic Arts[48]
Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia — (2007) Artificial Studios[49]
Mortal Kombat 8 - (2008) Midway
Parabellum - (2008) Acony
Project Georgia - (TBA) Obsidian Entertainmen
Project M - (TBA) NC Soft
Red Steel sequel - (TBA) Ubisoft
Robert Ludrum's The Bourne Conspiracy - (2008) High Moon Studios
RoboBlitz — (2006) Naked Sky Entertainment[50]
Rogue Warrior: Black Razor - (2007) Bethesda Softworks
Section 8 (2009) Timegate Studios
Sephiroth 2 - (TBA) IMagic Entertainment
Stargate Worlds — (2007) Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment[51]
Stranglehold — (2007) Midway Chicago[52]
The Last Remnant — (2008) Square Enix
The Scourge Project — (N/A) Tragnarion Studios
TNA iMPACT! - (2008) Midway Games
To End All Wars — (2008) Kuju Entertainment [53] [54]
Tom Clancy's EndWar — (2008) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas - (2006)
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty — (2008) Spark Unlimited
Turok — (2008) Propaganda Games
Undertow — (2007) Chair Entertainment
Unreal Tournament 3 — (2007) Epic Games
The Wheelman — (2007) Midway Games
Various upcoming Sega titles will utilize the Unreal Engine [14]
Warmonger - (2008) NetDevil


(SARCASM)

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Choco:

Originally posted by realdead_man:

This is a SMALL list of all the mods for 1998's UNREAL, just like Grim Dawn is a mod for Titan Quest!
(SARCASM)

There's a lot of stuff in that list, but it still misses one little thing...

A point.

It was sarcasm.
The OP claimed that GD was a mod to TQ in another post, so realdead_man listed a FPS, the first Unreal game, and all games that was in someway related to that(either in terms of playstyle or using the engine, presume).

The point is, if GD is a mod of TQ for being somewhat similar(using a modified engine), then all those games could be listed as mods as well, since they all build upon Unreal in some way.

So there is a point, it is just not on topic.


On topic:
First off, there is no need to use the $, as nothing in the game cost dollars, another real currency or even gold. It all cost Iron bits. A small thing, but it gets confusing when used again and again.

Secondly, the Forge is great for using all that stuff you gather on your journey, not only being able to craft different temporary buffs and epic items(when you find the recipies), but also create potent Relics. Further more, you will eventually accumulate a lot of stuff that you can use in some way. You could ofc, just sell it, but why sell and get a meager price, if you can create something that might be beneficial to you?

Scap is easily accumulated and rarely have a use, outside of fixing bridges. Same with Iron bits. Eventually you have so much, that it can easily be worth it to "gamble" for some good gear.

When you hit level 35, green items can often cost you 50k+ iron bits, so spending 25k iron bits on crafting items is a great way of gaining new stuff.
And as Dr Mcninja said, there is no reason to buy scrap. You should get that very easily if you know which areas to look for it, so the real cost of your crafting should have been something like this:

Four useful items cost: 8,900 iron bits
Eight unwanted items cost: 17,800 iron bits
Total cost: 26.700 iron bits

26.700 iron bits for 4 good items(3 of them green), is pretty cheap at level 35.
Even if you did decide to buy the scrap, 50k iron bits for 3 green items is a good price.


A few other things.
1) While the warden drops brainmatter, you can have luck on your side, and have it drop before you reach the warden from some of the hero-bosses. I think that by the time I reached the warden with the last character I made, I had 2 of the stuff. Also, you will eventually find more recipies, which are shared across all characters.
Alternatively, you can create the item with another character and transfer it to your level 18 character.

2)
The Blacksmith only create random items based somewhat on your level and what kind of blacksmith he is(magical or physical). Your equipped items have nothing to do with it. Atleast that has been my experience across all my characters.
It is simply RNG, and sometimes you get an item that requires a high Physique, because the stats are very high(the item type/level is a huge factor).
This way, I have had yellow items made that were stronger than several greens and blues, but the requirements were very high as well(over 500 physique for a weapon that I could use around level 24).


So economical speaking, the Forge is great.
For a reasonable value(and a bit of luck), you can use some of your excess materials and a bit of iron bits to get some decent gear. Maybe not to the character you are playing, but it can be saved and used for a different one.
Ofc, you never know what you will get, but if you have farmed for a long time, and only need some better boots, it is quite easy to spend 25k on crafting a bunch of boots and hope to get something that would have costed 40k+ at a trader/merchant.

[realdead_man]

Every post that guy makes he says something about Grim dawn being a Titan Quest mod.
Everyone is tired of it, and the Devs and mods are locking his posts because of it.

So here is the list of PATH ENGINE games. Titan Quest uses the Path Engine.
Grim uses a bastardization piece of the Path engine.

http://www.pathengine.com/clients

Is every game on that a Titan quest mod? Dragonball?

bloodbearhighking, feel free to think what you want about GS TQ mod, but please keep it to your self.

[DorkDiva]

Just don't reply to his posts anymore, maybe he'll go away?

[Cream Cheese Mustard King]

Farm some scrolls so you'll get better options at the forge :)
I never craft yellow unless I have to.. the blues usually rain down on my games for some reason, level 25 atm with my new char and already 11 blues have hit the ground.. I dont know why you have so much trouble.. I think the biggest problem is you take 2 hours to write these worthless posts and you should be killing the warden and the other bosses up to him :). Have fun

RNG RNG!!