Do the ability bonuses apply to the pet, to the skill, or me, all all?

[Fleshbits]

Take for example "Will of the Crypt"

It says "+142% elemental damage"

Does that mean my skeletons do +142% elemental damage? As far as I can tell they only do 60-76 physical with all three associated skills maxed out. So they don't even have elemental damage, no?

Does this mean, that if I cast, Replicating Missile, that it will do an additional 142% elemental damage?

Does this mean my sword, that does cold damage, will also do +143% more damage?

----

Furthermore does 100% conversion of dmg type x to y mean "for that skill?" or globally for all my skills, default attacks, and pets?

[DirtyMick]

If it has a radius, it will apply to everything within that radius (other players, summons, and yourself). If it doesn't have a radius, it will only apply to you. If it says bonus to pets, it will apply to your pets.

Some pets are player-scaled pets, so the bonus will also apply to them, because all of their bonuses come from whatever bonuses you have. (Those pets will specifically state that they are player-scaled)

Yes, all of your attacks will now do 142% more elemental damage. So any fire, cold, or lightning damage will be increased by that amount. (Flat damage increases work differently, but I don't wanna overwhelm you with information)

The conversion is a bit weird, depends on whether it's coming from a skill, or from gear. If it's on a secondary node to a skill (take storm totem for example), it will only apply to that skill. If it's on a buff like iskandras elemental exchange, it will apply to everything you do, since it is not a secondary node, it is a buff giving you conversion. (As long as your buff is toggled on, of course) Hopefully someone else can further iterate, since I'm not 100% sure I have that right.

Pets will not be affected by any conversion you have, unless it specifically states "bonus to pets".

[KG]

Will of the Crypt is part of the Raise Skeletons skill line and references the skeletons. It only affects them. If you give them some flat fire/cold/lightning damage that damage will then be buffed by the +X% Elemental Damage. This is not unusual - for example Necromancer can do so itself through Bone Harvest with points in Soul Harvest.

[DirtyMick]

Originally posted by KG:

Will of the Crypt is part of the Raise Skeletons skill line and references the skeletons. It only affects them. If you give them some flat fire/cold/lightning damage that damage will then be buffed by the +X% Elemental Damage. This is not unusual - for example Necromancer can do so itself through Bone Harvest with points in Soul Harvest.

Ahh nice. I don't know the necromancer skill names very well so I gave a whole lot of irrelevant information that apparently didn't even answer his question lol.

[DirtyMick]

Originally posted by KG:

Will of the Crypt is part of the Raise Skeletons skill line and references the skeletons. It only affects them. If you give them some flat fire/cold/lightning damage that damage will then be buffed by the +X% Elemental Damage. This is not unusual - for example Necromancer can do so itself through Bone Harvest with points in Soul Harvest.

But also, don't skeletons sometimes summon different types of skellies and some of them are mage skeletons that shoot fire or lightning or cold? Or am I just thinking of D2?

[KG]

I definitely didn't completely forget about the existence of those.

[GD4Ever]

Originally posted by DirtyMick:

Originally posted by KG:

Will of the Crypt is part of the Raise Skeletons skill line and references the skeletons. It only affects them. If you give them some flat fire/cold/lightning damage that damage will then be buffed by the +X% Elemental Damage. This is not unusual - for example Necromancer can do so itself through Bone Harvest with points in Soul Harvest.

But also, don't skeletons sometimes summon different types of skellies and some of them are mage skeletons that shoot fire or lightning or cold? Or am I just thinking of D2?

Hmmm didn't really notice. Thought it was either a range skelly with a bow or melee skelly with a sword.

[DirtyMick]

Originally posted by ttl4you:

Originally posted by DirtyMick:

But also, don't skeletons sometimes summon different types of skellies and some of them are mage skeletons that shoot fire or lightning or cold? Or am I just thinking of D2?

Hmmm didn't really notice. Thought it was either a range skelly with a bow or melee skelly with a sword.

Yeah, could be. I don't know pets that well.

[KG]

More advanced types of skeleton appear at higher Raise Skeleton skill levels. There's the archer you mentioned, a mage, and finally a death knight version.

[Duder]

I love the skellies but they die so quickly.
However there's a cool MI in Malmouth that lets you summon 7 at a time

[Quillithe]

I really wish tooltips explained this more often, it's frequently not immediately clear when +50% fire damage is to the skill, to the player, if it effects other things modifying the skill, etc.

Eventually it starts making sense, but the tooltips are very very unfriendly to new players.

Honestly I'd really like a full breakdown available on attack damage, cost, effects, etc from the actual skill tooltip, and for it to show how this would change for mousing over other skills before you add them. It's obviously calculating all this, it should be possible to output it to the player.

Though I have to say it's not just this game, the D4 beta kept having tooltips about Overpower, Fortify, and Lucky Hit that were underlined.

I don't really know what any of those mechanics do or how to find out without searching online, the game told me nothing. Thanks Diablo.

[DirtyMick]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I really wish tooltips explained this more often, it's frequently not immediately clear when +50% fire damage is to the skill, to the player, if it effects other things modifying the skill, etc.

Eventually it starts making sense, but the tooltips are very very unfriendly to new players.

Honestly I'd really like a full breakdown available on attack damage, cost, effects, etc from the actual skill tooltip, and for it to show how this would change for mousing over other skills before you add them. It's obviously calculating all this, it should be possible to output it to the player.

Yeah I agree. There's quite a few stats missing for the player too. Like my reduced damage reflection, doesn't exist on sheet. Total damage absorption. A list of damage conversions going on would be nice. There's others I can't think of off the top of my head.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Honestly I'd really like a full breakdown available on attack damage, cost, effects, etc from the actual skill tooltip, and for it to show how this would change for mousing over other skills before you add them. It's obviously calculating all this, it should be possible to output it to the player.

aside from being a nice assumption of what the game can or can't do
you have the issue of missing the part where you're not even right about what the game currently does
on the actual skill tooltip, the game does not add in or calc up all the skill nodes, not even talking about secondary mechanics nodes or skills that have proc buffs like Soul Harvest in Boneharvest, but just secondary booster nodes with ex flat dmg and stuff
easy example would be Callidors Tempest, it's a plain skill with no gimmicks so the second node is just a straight dmg addition, yet you will *not* see the lightning dmg added to Callidor skill tooltip. You will only see it in the dmg breakdown in character page 2 if skill is slotted to LMB or RMB - and only because Callidor is a straight up skill

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Honestly I'd really like a full breakdown available on attack damage, cost, effects, etc from the actual skill tooltip, and for it to show how this would change for mousing over other skills before you add them. It's obviously calculating all this, it should be possible to output it to the player.

aside from being a nice assumption of what the game can or can't do
you have the issue of missing the part where you're not even right about what the game currently does
on the actual skill tooltip, the game does not add in or calc up all the skill nodes, not even talking about secondary mechanics nodes or skills that have proc buffs like Soul Harvest in Boneharvest, but just secondary booster nodes with ex flat dmg and stuff
easy example would be Callidors Tempest, it's a plain skill with no gimmicks so the second node is just a straight dmg addition, yet you will *not* see the lightning dmg added to Callidor skill tooltip. You will only see it in the dmg breakdown in character page 2 if skill is slotted to LMB or RMB - and only because Callidor is a straight up skill

I think the game can determine how much damage your skills do...

I sure hope so at least lol


But yeah, I was saying it'd be nice if tooltips DID add this in and actually mention what the skill does.

EDIT: It's also not entirely impossible to have more dynamic tooltips since they do reflect some changes - for example a +% fire damage in a later skill will show up, but a +flat lightning will not. At the least it shouldn't be impossible for a game in general to do so.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

the game might be able to, but that's not the same as the tooltips being able to/or atleast being able to display it
heck the tooltip doesn't even take into consideration conversion if it's global or in same cases even direct conversion, again unless you're using the skill breakdown in character page 2
many added modifiers are also not factored in iirc, tho that also makes sense since it doesnt' even factor in parts of the stats the modifiers direct on the skill does
and even the page 2 breakdown for LMB/RMB slotted skill still can't/doesn't factor in 100% of everything for all skills, and some skills it's straight up unable to display, like pets or pseudo pets, not to mention 2part skills with part buff effect again Soul harvest example, or combination stuff, like AA and wps, - heck for scaling AA with charges it doesn't even show "real" dmg it just displays dmg from a 100% charge effect iirc or something/some updown variance there
anyway point is, you're assuming what the game can or can't do
i don't know if it's a true technical limitation why our tooltips are the way they are, or why even the best tooltip we have/page 2 is not "complete", since lot of "engine reasons" for XY stuff
or if it's just "lazy devs" - or something in between where it would be technically possible but require so much reworking it was deemed not worth spending that many resources for a "slight" improvement,
i couldn't say
but you're attributing stuff to things that already isn't in the game the way you thought as is atleast, so a slight poor start to begin with i think

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

the game might be able to, but that's not the same as the tooltips being able to/or atleast being able to display it
heck the tooltip doesn't even take into consideration conversion if it's global or in same cases even direct conversion, again unless you're using the skill breakdown in character page 2
many added modifiers are also not factored in iirc, tho that also makes sense since it doesnt' even factor in parts of the stats the modifiers direct on the skill does
and even the page 2 breakdown for LMB/RMB slotted skill still can't/doesn't factor in 100% of everything for all skills, and some skills it's straight up unable to display, like pets or pseudo pets, not to mention 2part skills with part buff effect again Soul harvest example, or combination stuff, like AA and wps, - heck for scaling AA with charges it doesn't even show "real" dmg it just displays dmg from a 100% charge effect iirc or something/some updown variance there
anyway point is, you're assuming what the game can or can't do
i don't know if it's a true technical limitation why our tooltips are the way they are, or why even the best tooltip we have/page 2 is not "complete", since lot of "engine reasons" for XY stuff
or if it's just "lazy devs" - or something in between where it would be technically possible but require so much reworking it was deemed not worth spending that many resources for a "slight" improvement,
i couldn't say
but you're attributing stuff to things that already isn't in the game the way you thought as is atleast, so a slight poor start to begin with i think

No, again - if you read my post I'm well aware that these things aren't in the game.

I'm also aware that the game HAS to calculate damage somewhere - heck, it even displays it in the character screen to some degree. And it absolutely has to calculate it correctly at some point for...like...the gameplay to function.

I don't particularly care whether the bad tooltips are a carry over issue from the Titan Quest engine being unable to do so at all or whatever the cause is - it's still something that games in general are able to do, that this game could therefore potentially be doing, and that would be a good feature for it to have done.

Obviously not a big deal, and not going to be changed now, but better tooltips would absolutely be a big improvement if they ever make a sequel - they're terribly unfriendly to new players.