So how does Retaliation damage work?

[Fendelphi]

Have played a lot with my retaliation tank lately, and though it works brilliant, I have no idea why.

It is only skills(like Vindictive Flame and Blade barrier) that has a guaranteed proc chance.
Retaliation from items(like 150 piercing retalition) does not proc every time apparently, even if there is no %-chance involved.

%-chance procs works as you would expect when they come from medals or amulets(Attuned Lodestone proc).

Does this mean that "normal" retaliation only proc when the specific body part is hit(in case of shield, when you block)?
If this is the case, then certain retaliation effects are greatly diminished on parts such as Head or Hands, where the chance to get hit is lower than Torse or Legs.


Additionally, if you go look up the 3rd character page, there appears to be no bonus damage associated with retaliation, even if you have bonus to said damage type.
Even Total damage bonuses are not listed.

TL:DR
"Normal" item retaliation procs, like Piercing retaliation, seems inconsistent.
Also, there appears to be no bonus damage from Cunning or Spirit, or even Total damage, when you look at the 3rd character page with the Retaliation.

[Draug]

Here is what I can tell:

1. "Normal" retaliation damage only works against melee hits. And as I recall, if an enemy "misses" you, you deal no retaliation.
2. "Normal" retaliation damage isn't supposed to scale with any stats or % bonuses (unless/until specific % retaliation bonuses are added in). Although flat piercing retaliation is bugged (fixed for B19) in that it scales with cunning.
3. If armor based retaliation is dependant on location hit, that is new with the current build. (I'm pretty certain that Isaac's Shoulderpads react to every melee hit, though)

[Fendelphi]

引用自 Draug：

Here is what I can tell:

1. "Normal" retaliation damage only works against melee hits. And as I recall, if an enemy "misses" you, you deal no retaliation.
2. "Normal" retaliation damage isn't supposed to scale with any stats or % bonuses (unless/until specific % retaliation bonuses are added in). Although flat piercing retaliation is bugged (fixed for B19) in that it scales with cunning.
3. If armor based retaliation is dependant on location hit, that is new with the current build. (I'm pretty certain that Isaac's Shoulderpads react to every melee hit, though)

Well, thanks for the reply. Cleared up some of the questions.

One thing I dont get is why "total damage" bonus does not increase retaliation damage. That would seem logical to me.

[Draug]

I just did a bit of testing, and flat retaliation damage doesn't depend on location hit, just on actually being hit. (for the test I had Pierce Retaliation damage on helm and boots, total of the two was always done when I was hit. I had no variation with the enemies that were attacking me, although if the enemy had pierce resist, that would reduce the damage done)

[Fendelphi]

引用自 Draug：

I just did a bit of testing, and flat retaliation damage doesn't depend on location hit, just on actually being hit. (for the test I had Pierce Retaliation damage on helm and boots, total of the two was always done when I was hit. I had no variation with the enemies that were attacking me, although if the enemy had pierce resist, that would reduce the damage done)

Weird, because I did a similar test, and the piercing retaliation(and the other "always on" types) would not always proc. In fact they procced rarely compared to being "always on".

Maybe it is because I have so many different types of retaliation on my character that they "block" each other on occasion(Electrocute retaliation, Burn retaliation, Lightning retaliation, Piercing retaliation, Acid retaliation and reflect damage).

And that is without using Vindictive Flame or Counterstrike, or the %-chance procs from gear(lightning Surge, Lightning ball, the gloves with a counterstrike like proc), which all seem to work fine and even proc more consistent than the "regular" retaliation.

[Draug]

What is this character's DA?

If you have a high enough DA, then the enemies won't actually "hit" you very often. This leads to a major difference between retaliation damage, retaliation skills, and reflection damage.

In general, the skills and reflection can activate whenever any attack connects, even if the OA-DA roll turns it into a miss. But the flat retaliation damages require the enemy to hit you in melee and pass the OA-DA roll so that they actually inflict damage with their melee attack.

[Ocelot113]

引用自 Fendelphi：

Well, thanks for the reply. Cleared up some of the questions.

One thing I dont get is why "total damage" bonus does not increase retaliation damage. That would seem logical to me.

That is funny that "total damage" doesn't boost retaliation, especially if what Draug said is true and pierce resistance can mitigate pierce retaliation. Pierce resistance should not effect pierce retaliation as offensively they are different statistics (Pierce Damage and Pierce Retaliation).