Mastery Bar vs Skills

[frdnwsm]

Just curious what the general consensus of opinion is on this. When starting a new character, I usually put 2 of the three allocation points they get per level into Mastery bar(s) and keep the skills down to 1 or 2 damage types. This helps build up a reserve cushion of Mastery for when they hit that annoying plateau at level 51, when allocation points drop to 2/level.

But what is an acceptable ratio of Mastery:Skills after reaching that point? !:!? 1.5:1?
Specifically, right now I have a level 68 Purifier in the Ogdenburg/Barrowholm area. He has a total of 80 ranks in his 2 Mastery bars. I'd really like to get him 5 or so levels in Storm Spread to buff his offensive power, but I'm worried that neglecting his Masteries for the next 2 levels might make him too fragile.

Comments?

[Halcyon]

If you feel durable but weak, pump skills. If you feel powerful but fragile, pump bar. That's my approach at least...or you can pick a skill you really want to use and level the bar to it before maxing it and moving on.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

imo: "depends"
(feck me that became a huge wall )
varies per build ofc, and per available skills
"on average", since Norm/Veteran is so easy i tend to focus most in mastery bar, and just 1point skills, usually to around lvl 40'ish where i then start to up my dmg skills.
How it goes is usually i up the mastery bar, 1point desired skills along the way: and cap resist reduct, in 1 class, then shift to the next class; unless there is some highly desired skill in the other class i want quick. Ex in Elementalist i will usually 12point Raging Tempest in Shaman then switch to get thermite mines in Demo. But ex in blademaster i will full rush 50 mastery to unlock Blade Spirit(1pt) and only have put 2points in soldier at lvl 10 to get Cadence, then not put more points in Soldier until fully done with Nightblade like in the mid/late twenties.
The reason i do this is, besides norm/vet being easy, i want the DA OA and HP boost mastery bar affords, and being able to quickly unlock certain skills, even if only 1 pointed, can (to me) be more valuable than vs capping a few skills early ex fully capping Fire Strike + Explosive Strike or Primal Strike + Torrent.
^i feel i don't need the dmg boost from capping many skills until later, and that i'm better served with full mastery bar and even few pointed skills, and then just start to build/cap my skills in the 40s or whenever i'm done/have reached the desired threshold

Combined with gear, ex devils crossing faction items at lvl 35, i usually have so much DA i'm fairly comfy in the % chance to get hit by monsters and so much OA i'm still managing to crit even bosses, and so much HP it doesn't become a stat i "worry" about

16pointing Primal Strike "quick" might be fun and games, but idono, to me/my approach, i just feel more comfy with a single point, quick unlocking passives, 1pointing skills+only capping RR and stacking a full mastery bar before i even feel the "need" to up my individual dmg skill's dmg boost, (beyond bonus dmg from gear ofc), until a bit later

that's my usual approach for most chars, perhaps some slight variation. Some examples can differ, specially in "low synergy"builds where i will just boost a single class in stead because the other has nothing i "want" 1pointed (like ex the 2 toons in your other thread). But probably, maybe, "9/10 times" i go the "rush to unlock skills just 1pt stuff and unlock full mastery bar along the way"route, i just found it, on average, so much better for me to play, than having "half" a mastery bar in each class and some fully capped offensive skills (i also tend to cap my passives or defensives before my direct dmg skills)
that's just me

[SchnitzelTruck]

Early game I pump skills more than the bar because it makes leveling faster. After level 25 I focus more on the bar.

[frdnwsm]

Originally posted by SchnitzelTruck:

Early game I pump skills more than the bar because it makes leveling faster. After level 25 I focus more on the bar.

Heh, I went the other route. I pumped Mastery first, because I wanted survival to be prioritized while the character was young, and then caught up with combat skills later on. But if you analyze it, the two approaches pretty much equalize out in the end. Avoiding death penalties helps level also.

[frdnwsm]

Originally posted by Halcyon:

If you feel durable but weak, pump skills. If you feel powerful but fragile, pump bar. That's my approach at least...or you can pick a skill you really want to use and level the bar to it before maxing it and moving on.

Basically, you are saying "it depends on the build and the situation". OK, that's a valid comment. I was thinking some folks might have a hard and fast rule that they follow, but that may have been a bit naive.

[frdnwsm]

>"being able to quickly unlock certain skills, even if only 1 pointed, can (to me) be more valuable than vs capping a few skills early ex fully capping Fire Strike + Explosive Strike or Primal Strike + Torrent."<

Yeah, I have a tendency to want to pump a skill up to maximum quite early. I have, however, been rethinking that recently. Like, do I really NEED maximum ranks of Deadly AIm? It only procs on a critical hit, so I am thinking to cut back on that and pump some more Mastery to increase cunning stat/OA.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

the reason i do that, specially early -besides the DA OA HP bonus which will mostly usually first start to matter at 30 and beyond is: Rushing some skill, just to a 1 point, can give such a huge boost, compared to having pumped the same point into a single skill.
Ex shadow strike and ring of steel in Nightblade are such massive 1pt dmg boosts by the available time you get it (if rushing) that you will literally 1 shot trash mobs, in packs. So if as a Nighblade, instead of pumping WPS to 20%, or doing Amarasta's Blade Burst or Phantasmal blades and pumping those, and just rush all the way to Blade Spirit, then just with a single point in those 3 skills (RoS, SS, spirit) then you just absolutely murder stuff by the lvl range you have that, and they continue to scale nicely.
I feel the same with ex demolitionist, pumping 12-16 points in Firestrike "early" is just, idono, not worth it to me, compared to what could potentially be unlocked and gained with just a single point, again stuff like Grenado or Mortar or pipebomb will just obliterate stuff, or in another potential class -and while you get your dmg/aoe you still get the benefit of the mastery bar at teh same time
Shaman i no longer, ever fully cap savagery or primal strike early, compared i just find it pointless to go beyond the initial cap because other stuff can be more valuable/scale better "early". But for instance when going vit/bleed build i will fully cap Devouring Swarm asap, since it's both dmg skill and RR in one but i still only 1 point Vines for instance before moving on.
Oathkeeper rushing to get guardian of empyrions, which is both RR and player scaled pet just seem "logic" to me, it's double bonus, and sure you don't get a 10 stacked Righteous Fervor or Aegis if you do that, but you get other useful stuff that more than make up for it
^until you then "Need" the extra dmg boost, and start filling in those 1pointed dmg skill to (near)cap, later.
basically as i see it you get double bonus of my approach, mastery bar points + varied skill spread that boosts to make up for the lack of dumping in 1 early skill. Where as if you dump 16 points in primal strike early, then you only have that, nothing else
I think Ring og Steel is really the best example, it's just such a massive dmg boost, and scales super, that it's totally worth rushing for, even just for that, (and i pretty much do it on any build that involves Nightblade heh)

......sigh, another post that became a wall when i only intended a paragraph...

[Blake]

I usually have one and a half mastery bars by the time I am level 30. Always. Then its a case of fleshing out skills. 1 single damage skill, 1 AOE, 1 movement skill and circuit breakers via devotions, component skills on left and right mouse, toggleble buffs and enhancements and that's all I usually need

[kekkuli]

For smooth leveling i'd recommend maxing at least few skills by level 25-30~ and after that focusing more on masteries.

[powbam]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

Originally posted by Halcyon:

If you feel durable but weak, pump skills. If you feel powerful but fragile, pump bar. That's my approach at least...or you can pick a skill you really want to use and level the bar to it before maxing it and moving on.

Basically, you are saying "it depends on the build and the situation". OK, that's a valid comment. I was thinking some folks might have a hard and fast rule that they follow, but that may have been a bit naive.

I'm with Halcyon and this comes from years of experience.. don't be rigid. Be flexible depending on your build. Some are stronger early game, others weaker. There is nothing more frustratingly slow than running a build that is weak in the early game so don't exacerbate the issue by gimping yourself unnecessarily.

If you need good damage then pump those skills up until it feels good to you. Then worry about defensive/healing skills afterwards.

These days most builds I make I start out pumping two points into an offensive skill and 1 in the bar. I may alternate like this between 2-3 skills for the first 10+ levels and then I'll snag whatever defensive skills are convenient. Once I feel like I'm in a good spot all-around I'll start rushing the mastery bar(s) - occasionally I might stop for a few levels to point up a skill a little if I think it's worth it. My goal tho is to always have both mastery bars opened up to however far I want them to go by level 50 or thereabouts. Around 25-30 is when your builds should start feeling kinda nice and you've had opportunity to find some decent gear so if you aren't beginning to feel strong by this point you should reassess your approach.

From there I will likely start pumping the mastery bars hard as I can to achieve the level 50 goal of getting full or nearly full access to both the trees.

[kekkuli]

Originally posted by wespe___o=/:*:

Originally posted by kekkuli:

For smooth leveling i'd recommend maxing at least few skills by level 25-30~ and after that focusing more on masteries.

wow. I never max any skill early/midgame.. not even at Lv. 50 ;)
usually 1-4 is enough "Punch" for me.. only few builds enforce respeccing multiple times to enjoy somewhat smooth leveling - one is for sure Bleed builds ;(

Well i like to be fast&effective, and there is no way you can be fast with level 1-4 skills. The game is slow enough as it is, why make it a slog :p Besides you don't really need tons of HP during the first 30 levels so i don't see why not to max some skills instead.

[SchnitzelTruck]

Originally posted by kekkuli:

Originally posted by wespe___o=/:*:

wow. I never max any skill early/midgame.. not even at Lv. 50 ;)
usually 1-4 is enough "Punch" for me.. only few builds enforce respeccing multiple times to enjoy somewhat smooth leveling - one is for sure Bleed builds ;(

Well i like to be fast&effective, and there is no way you can be fast with level 1-4 skills. The game is slow enough as it is, why make it a slog :p Besides you don't really need tons of HP during the first 30 levels so i don't see why not to max some skills instead.

Skills with only 1-3 points in them will need multiple uses to kill even the trashiest of trash mobs. Even skyshards or grenado would need multiple uses to kill a basic zombie at level 20+. No wonder people take 40+ hours to finish vet difficulty >.<

[kvin11]

General rule of thumb, only invest enough in the mastery bar to get to build essential skills. Investing points in skills is always more valuable than simply investing extra points in the mastery bar. if you need extra points in physique, cunning, or spirit, just invest your attribute points in them.