Tips on how to make a functional build?

[Scipo0419]

I love theory crafting builds, but this game has always eluded me. As an example, I was able to make a functional build for every class/specialization in Last Epoch with very little experience in the game, and even came up with my own Juggernaut build for Titan Quest, but even though I've played much more Grim Dawn, I can't seem to come up with my own builds and resort to guides.

In my experience, my main issue stems from three things: 1) how do you decide what skills and how many points go into them? 2) how do you plan devotions? 3) do you take gear into account before or after your skills/devotions?

I know the major rules of pick a damage type or two that compliment each other and choose masteries that overlap on that front and focus on maxing resistances where possible, but any other advice for how everyone comes up with their own builds would be appreciated!

[GI Ged]

most of the time it depends on the item (weapon armor) that you can use what brings you the most damage, like panettis replicating missile or dreegs evil eye. If you focus on one skill and max it out with point and +skill weapon and armor, that can be very powerful and fun to play.

[Tode[BTC]]

To start I would suggest visiting Grimtools.com so you can play with builds and items.

Next, all builds in the game function on one primary idea. Pick 1 main damage type and go all in on it. Your main skill or two should be that damage type, either naturally or by damage conversion. Your gear need to reflect this.

In this same vein, mostly focus on one or two main damage skills. Max those out and then get supporting buff / aura / or debuff skill that compliment it. The amount of points you put in these other skills can vary on builds, so some of this comes with experience. One main thing to look for is many skills have a "break point", meaning that additional skill points put into them returns less rewards. Aka they get less efficient. So paying attention to this might help. So say if a skill gives attack speed, generally up to a point you will get an increase per skill point, but at higher points the attack speed may only go up every 2 or 3 skill points invested. So stopping early when that break point happens will save you some efficiency.

Lastly, here is an older forum post that details some of the end game numbers to shoot for when making a build. Again, this is not concrete but it still a very good guide. In any case you always want to max resistances at the very least, and by end game try to over-cap most of them. https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/guide-recommended-stats-for-end-game/89698

[Tode[BTC]]

As for the devotion questions. Generally, I aim to try and get at least one of the higher tier devotions in a build, as they are generally the better ones. However, this is not always 100% the case.
I pick skills first and then look at devotions second. What skills and how many skills you are using can drastically effect what devotions you can or want to use. For example, some devotions are better when using aoe dot type attacks, some are not. So say you have a devotion that only procs 20% of the time on attack you want that devotion on an attack that is going to have a lot of "hits" it can proc off. Otherwise it will be significantly less effective.

You also have to pay attention to how many devotions skills you have that need specific types of skills to be attached too. If you have 4 devotions that need to be attached to attack skills but only have 2 or 3 attack skills, that is no good. Similarly if you only have 1 or 2 auras but have 3 or 4 devotions that need auras to attach too, that's no good.

So there is a bit of give and take planning that need to go into both skills and devotions. There are instances where it may be beneficial to have 1 point only invested in a skill just so you can proc a certain devotion off of it.

As for gear, generally, devotions and gear do not really care about one another that much. But depending on what your goal is with a build, gear may play a bigger factor. I often make builds that require and use certain gear because of the unique modifiers they provide to a certain skill. But I like making goofy builds that use a lot damage conversion and such. This is not a requirement to making a good build. There are many good end game builds that just use gear that works well with the natural skills of a build. Generally, picking an endgame gear set that matches with your main skill(s) will be good enough, while filling out the rest with whatever stats you need.

Where gear and devotions DO mix, however, is mostly in resistances and OA / DA. Since gear and devotions are your primary ways of getting these, the extra bits of gear you fill out a build with will be based on what resistance and such you need that your devotions do not take care of.

[Scipo0419]

@Tode: thanks so much for the detailed replies. Would there happen to be a tool that details the breakpoints for skills, or is it just a "play around with Grim Tools planner and check the numbers." situation?

This is getting me fired up for trying to throw my own build together.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by TodeBTC:

Lastly, here is an older forum post that details some of the end game numbers to shoot for when making a build. Again, this is not concrete but it still a very good guide. In any case you always want to max resistances at the very least, and by end game try to over-cap most of them. https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/guide-recommended-stats-for-end-game/89698

Took a quick look at it and the post is still relevant. There is only 1 thing I slightly disagree with, and probably only because I play HC.

Anyway, generally there are 2 or 3 devotions I want to get. The rest is just whatever to get there. I don't stress out on the specifics, because GD overall is about reaching certain benchmarks. If I pick up 150 OA from devotions, then perhaps I have a "of protection" item instead "of attack". It is all the same in the end. If you meet the benchmarks, it doesn't matter where it comes from.

Same thing for items. Generally there are 2 or 3 items I'm trying to build around. The rest is whatever to fill the gaps. While leveling, especially in the last couple item tiers, I'll hold on to any particularly heavy resist greens of a few different types. It usually doesn't take too long to mix and match to get what you need, especially since augments can patch up any holes from any resists lagging behind.

So basically, a few devotions and a few items and the rest just fills in the gaps to meet what I need end game.

[Matthew]

Unless you are playing a 50/50 mastery build or trying to do something like pet hybrid, I've never found skill points to be an issue. Some skills and passives have reduced gains at higher levels, but majority of the time it is something you are building around and still get it anyway. If I'm playing a Trozan with star pact build, I'm still maxing star pact and not stopping at 9. Even though cooldown reduction gains are only every other level past 9.

The bigger "waste" of skill points isn't in these reduced gains, but putting points into skills or passives which don't really need more than 1. For example, the base wind devil skill only does about a third of the damage of maelstrom, and that is best case scenario of physical conversion and electrocute scaling. For most shaman builds, anything more than 1 into base is extremely poor returns on damage. Hell, even on a fully dedicated maelstrom type of build, I'd still only put 1 into base.

There are only a few types of those skills, but as long as you avoid those, you typically have plenty of skill points to throw around.

[Tode[BTC]]

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

@Tode: thanks so much for the detailed replies. Would there happen to be a tool that details the breakpoints for skills, or is it just a "play around with Grim Tools planner and check the numbers." situation?

This is getting me fired up for trying to throw my own build together.

Well, that is mostly a very min-max, nit-picky thing to worry about most the time. I usually only really worry about it for some of the buff type skills that involve attack / casting speed or other direct gain bonuses. Like the Arcanist damage absorb shield, or the demolitionist attack speed aura buff. There is drop off point for those, I think its like 8 skill points or something.

For the most part, Grim Dawn is a less is more type of game. Where having a fewer hand-full of skills maxxed out is generally better than more skills with less points in them.
There are a few exceptions of course, like the ones I mentioned.
Others are:
The bottom of the soldiers skill tree, most of those skills are usually only 1 skill point.

Additive basic attack proc skills. Like the Inquisitor gun skills, or the Nightblade DW skills. Generally, you only need to put like 3 or 4 skill points in those as the percentage of proc increase is not going to make a difference, and they are often added to by gear anyway. Usually enough to get them to like 20-25% proc rate. As even at full skill investment they only go up to like 30% or something usually. Depending on gear you can often just put 1 in them.

Skills like Blade Spirit or Guardian of Empyrion, unless they are a focus of the build most people often only put 1 point in the main skill so they can attach a devotion to them. In a similar vein, skills like Curse of Fraility or Empyrions where the main skill is often 1 point but full points into the 2nd part to get the resistance reduction.

Really the main way to get an idea of stuff like this is experience and looking at other builds to see what they have done in that manner. Grimtools has a section where you can see other submitted builds people have done on the forums to get some of that information if you want to look. But a lot of that comes down to personal preference as well.

[BIG E.]

1) how do you decide what skills and how many points go into them?

Your main needs comes first, everything else comes second. For example if i am doing a build that depends on high OA for crits, any aura that gives me OA and crit damage in my kit is priority. Resist reduction abilities are always priority. Ofc your main ability line is also priority. Everything else you can spread around some points depending on what you need.

2) how do you plan devotions?

Same way you plan your abilities. Resist reduction is always priority alongside with defensive devotions so you can survive, devoitons like behemoth, dryad, turtle etc. Outside of that you just get the damage nodes for your damage type. You might also wanna get some devotions on the way for OA and DA.

3) do you take gear into account before or after your skills/devotions?

This entirely depends on how you want to play the game. I constantly use the item database so i know what build and items i am hunting for.

But if you are playing blind you would not take gear into account. For things like OA and DA you do take gear into account.

[Wintermute]

I'd kill for detailed, skill-by-skill guide for soft/hardcapping. They all scale differently, and beyond "max your main skill" I have no clue how to min-max.

[Slainpessimist]

There's an android app (don't know about apple) called companion for grim dawn, it's a planner for devotions, I used it a long time ago and might be helpful to a new player.

[BIG E.]

Originally posted by Wintermute:

I'd kill for detailed, skill-by-skill guide for soft/hardcapping. They all scale differently, and beyond "max your main skill" I have no clue how to min-max.

You can import your character to build calculator in grimtools and move around points.

Caps are mainly important for things like "x amount of targets" "x amount of summons" "x amounts of projectiles" etc.