So Apparently Grim Dawn Is "Satanic"

[The_Mess]

So a certain someone, who shall be blessed with namelessness despite "charitably" wishing I would suffer[1] for questioning them thinks Grim Dawn is totes anti-X and "Satanic".

Of course on pointing out how wrong they were they deleted their review and blocked me on top for fluff knows why. But join me in mocking this idea.

For it is very, very laughable given Grim Dawn is set in a fictional world, on top of the much of the occult imagery being based on stuff that was invented whole cloth in the 18th-19th, plus the whole 20th century (occult history is a lot more boring than you think lawl). With some angular cruciform text from the Bronze Age Fertile Crescent city states for added spiciness + Lovecroftian Horror as a very well done frame for it all.

But nope, can't have any of that in games lawl, otherwise you're glorifying "Satan".

Anyhow, no bashing X please, for they art ever so sensitive and doing so is oh so trite given how easy it is, instead there's a rich mine of occult history to mine and how people have done stupid things over made up stuff vis games. Like say DnD being totes Satanic!11!1!

Or the fact that game wise Korvaak is evil by human standards, and a certain necromancer hints his been an even bigger bastard than the game's lore tells us too, because the Korvan Basin's destruction wasn't the first time he wiped a people out, even if it was the first time he did it involuntarily.

________________________

[1] Given all the crap I've been through, one word comes to mind - "Theodicy" and one phrase "Murder the Gods and Topple Their Thrones", which is why I loved getting to kick Korvaak's behind so much.

[Edit] - teh review has come back, purged of my comments lawl. But still bearing the three clowns it was rightly awarded.

[Edit2] Newsflash - feeding me jesters only gives me points to laugh at other fools, so you'll have to try harder darlings.

[dendriti]

sir this is a wendy's

[Remnant Melody]

LOL thanks for the laugh. Everything is 'satan' to a very brain damage group of people. Not even worms can save them from themselves. The craycray religio groups aren't as big as they used to be, but woo boy when one decides to crawl out from under their stacks of bibles, its going to be entertaining again. They dust that old scary boogeyman playbook out and think 'it'll work this time, you'll see!' and yeah..

A lil more ontopic on the game - WE LITERALLY banish invading evil and purge some evil gods... but okay mate..

[Chibi Life]

Even if it really is Satanic that just makes it more entertaining. Hail Satan!

[An R Key5993]

Christian here, born again after more or less a decade of identifying as atheist. I call a lot of these people "pearl clutchers," as a practicing Christian I've never understood the philosophy of art not being able to have anything remotely.... evil? Occultish? "Satanic?"

I know plenty of pearl clutchers who would cast me out and call me all sorts of names for being into metal music and watching horror movies but again I just don't get it. 99% of horror media is the good guy/main character beating the evil, and most metal music is agnostic at best (meaning not really talking about religion at all). Of course you have your cringe edge lords making art to be "cool" that I tend to avoid, but by and large I think you could make an argument most occult themed art is at the very least pro good.

On topic as another said above the game is literally about KILLING and pushing BACK evil not embracing it. I don't know maybe I missed in Leviticus where it was commanded that certain genres of media can't be enjoyed but until someone shows me proof of this I think all it does is turn people off of spirituality and unfortunately in groups/fandoms that may really need it.

Sorry for the rant, I can complain about pearl clutchers all day long,

[All Day I Dream About🪓]

I mean it’s not far from truth, every time I pick occultist mastery on new char I immediately bathe in the blood of the innocent and sacrifice virgins in the name of our Unholy Lord. Btw doing so gives your char another 40% Chaos and Acid damage boost

[PrinceXavieR™]

I better stop playing this game then , thanks for the heads up! . I dont want God to be mad at me. Any recommendations for another non "Satan" infused arpg? Since Diablo 4 is free right now, do you guys recommend it ?

[The_Mess]

Originally posted by An R Key5993:

Christian here, born again after more or less a decade of identifying as atheist. I call a lot of these people "pearl clutchers," as a practicing Christian I've never understood the philosophy of art not being able to have anything remotely.... evil? Occultish? "Satanic?"

I know plenty of pearl clutchers who would cast me out and call me all sorts of names for being into metal music and watching horror movies but again I just don't get it. 99% of horror media is the good guy/main character beating the evil, and most metal music is agnostic at best (meaning not really talking about religion at all). Of course you have your cringe edge lords making art to be "cool" that I tend to avoid, but by and large I think you could make an argument most occult themed art is at the very least pro good.

Sorry for the rant, I can complain about pearl clutchers all day long,

As an atheist (agnostic, humanist branch) allow me to give you an "Amen, preach it!" for what it's worth :P

Also this is basically what this thread was sort of design for, a broad church in which to point and have a joke at this sort of stuff.

But yeah, what I've worked out over the years, is this sort of foolishness is all to similar to the internets-point-scoring "leftism" you see on twitter/tumblr, aka wokescolds/tankies. In short it's a performance of Christianity designed to score points with others and reinforce the whole "we're constantly under threat!" memeplex. Which incidentally is why they, like the "leftists" I mentioned early are crap at being what they claim to be, whether it's being charitable etc.

And yeah, that's the thing with a lot of metal really, never mind much of horror is about getting through horrific things and often involves actively fighting evil things. Some of which involves using Christian beliefs as a shield against the horrors to get them through. And having to live with severe depression, I support that thoroughly, for when the shtf any light in the dark is welcome.

Also, it's the 21st century people, if demons existed business would have commercialised them already lawl.

[edit] - w00t, points! Thanks! Not been very functional for the last year + had mental health fun, so kindness like this helps :D Which reminds me, I need to save up for hand tattoo /cough. edit2 - fix edit postion, me tireds, me sleep now...

[The_Mess]

Originally posted by Kitty💜Kang:

I better stop playing this game then , thanks for the heads up! . I dont want God to be mad at me. Any recommendations for another non "Satan" infused arpg? Since Diablo 4 is free right now, do you guys recommend it ?

I don't think anyone here, even an thoroughly "amoral" atheist like myself can recommend Diablo 4 to anyone, for it might be demon infested, but it is the product of the dark arts of business degrees, not blessed game design.

Or TL:DR - it's shallow and pretty hollow on the build variety front, on top of being an MMO in a mask pretending to be a solid single player game...

Also, it's Activision, and thus cursed beyond all the ken of this emby.

[Lapom]

As someone who worships Satan in their spare time, I can confirm Grim Dawn is indeed Satanic.

[The_Mess]

/BUMP

By Korvaak! the reposted review is even worse than I first thought, for they've gone full mask off to tell us how totes evil teh game is! It's even going to draw us all into worshipping Shaitan himself they swear!

Oh well, not like fools ever learn the first rule of holes - Stop Digging. Because digging yourself in further never works.

[Omnicide]

Ah yes, the previous social programming. I grew up baffled by the insanity of the religious right before the left supplanted them with that new new crazy.

The fringes are ever driving normal people nuts with their nonsense, but man I'm finding myself nostalgic for the old brand of crap these days.

[turbodevil]

You can roleplay as a witch who is possessed by evil spirit, summons HELLhound and creates bloody pentagrams that suck life out of people. Main quest path forces you to choose an unholy cult and allows you to join another cult of evil worshiping cannibals. Not to mention aestetics, especially in blood grove and beyond. I know it's just a game (and I like it how it is) but is this so hard to believe that someone more, hm... fragile... to these sort of things would label it as you mentioned?

[Wintermute]

But doesn't GD teach us the dangers of paganism?

I still remember a thread on some other game, where a muslim guy was trying to figure out if he's allowed to restore shrines, or is it an act of worship to a false god. Religious gaming is sure hard.

[The_Mess]

Originally posted by turbodevil:

You can roleplay as a witch who is possessed by evil spirit, summons HELLhound and creates bloody pentagrams that suck life out of people. Main quest path forces you to choose an unholy cult and allows you to join another cult of evil worshiping cannibals. Not to mention aestetics, especially in blood grove and beyond. I know it's just a game (and I like it how it is) but is this so hard to believe that someone more, hm... fragile... to these sort of things would label it as you mentioned?

Technically Solael isn't "evil" after all he only accepts willing sacrifices, while Sigil of Consumption is totes the choice of the individual to use :P Hell, even some times using it doesn't help and you're better investing in other skills.

As for the Witch God cults - they're actually pretty good, though a little "weird" and generally want to be left alone to worship The Three and the Witch Gods Pact stops them from interfering in Cairn. So unlike Korvaak they haven't left a wake of desolations behind them as the game hints at nor gone on progroms like the Empire has against The Three's followers.

Now Barrowholm on the other hand are evil, but Ravager will likely get themselves killed fighting the Ch'thonians or Moggy will banhammer him again. But they're part of an underlying theme of "Hunger" in the game, the hunger that leads to Yugol ultimately. Which incidentally is why you should never give Riggs the Iris, because he's going to do something very, very stupid with it if you read what he says about hunger.

Anyhow, it all comes down to context and putting things into context, both with the game and the real world and the history of how what pop culture uses for "occult" came into existence. And the person here fails to do that, and compounds it with extra foolishness and outright hypocrisy vis the very values they're meant to espouse. Making for rich feeding grounds :3

[The_Mess]

Originally posted by Wintermute:

But doesn't GD teach us the dangers of paganism?

I still remember a thread on some other game, where a muslim guy was trying to figure out if he's allowed to restore shrines, or is it an act of worship to a false god. Religious gaming is sure hard.

It's going to depend on which School of Islam they follow, the more puritan one would consider it Haram (as it's still Shirk no matter if they don't exist) to restore those shrines with a degree of opinions overall across the schools and even Imans. For Islam is most definitely not a monolith.

More liberal Imans would patiently explain that it's fiction and thus it doesn't count as Shirk and Allah the most merciful will not met out punishment for such things with the Sura etc to back that up.

Where as a Rabbi would look at you sideways lawl before trying to work out the best way to help you, or get rid of you if they're tetchy.

And yes, I do actually have a minor in Middle East Studies from pol.sci so know a bit more about Islam + I'm the grandkid of a Shoah survivor, so picked up some minor Jewish stuff (and a love of Latke) along the way.