Grim Dawn is FAR better than Diablo 4

[Sonic Mirage 🎸]

[tukkek]

Always has been... https://i.imgflip.com/7qsysx.jpg

Jokes aside, Diablo 4 is very heavily made for and targeted towards casuals. Those people who just want to play a shallow action-RPG campaign then mess with end-game for maybe a week or two at most then never play again will probably think Diablo 4 is a masterpiece.

And that's OK, there are hundreds more times players like these than hardcore gamers.

For hardcore gamers, Grim Dawn and Path of Exile have been the best titles in the genre for very many years now, for different (and mostly polar-opposite) reasons. I still prefer GD much more but with POE2 getting a beta before the year is over, I'm looking forward to trying it!

[Question]

I have not played D4 yet but based on D3 i suspect its going to do some things well and some things badly. D3 caught a lot of flak but it did some things really well, for example, D3's bounty system is integrated into the core game play whereas GD's bounty system seems more like an after thought, since its only used to farm faction rep and ignored once you hit revered. Things like the xp, iron bits and component rewards are not even scaled properly. 5k xp for an act 7 normal bounty feels like someone forgot to scale the numbers up per act, and 800 iron bits for normal bounties feels insulting.

D3 also has a much better loot system due to smart loot, in GD (and most ARPGs) you get so much junk that you spend a significant amount of game play time managing your stash, checking for duplicates, checking to see which item has a higher roll, etc. It really drags the game play down when after clearing a few zones you have to stop playing to do stash management. In D3, i spent very little time managing the stash because most items dropped for my class and it was very obvious which items i should keep or dismantle.

D3 also has a much better system to re-roll items using the cube. You can craft legendaries in GD, but its horribly expensive and 99% of the time, the result is simply not relevant for your build.

GD's main strengths IMHO are the masteries allowing for a wide variety of builds and a very large and well developed campaign, but at the end its an old game on an even older engine and there are many areas of improvement. The #1 problem again is how much time is taken up by managing the stash, even dismantling epics/legendaries is very time consuming due to the UI only allowing you to dismantle them one by one, and having to manually remove the output from the inventor before dismantling another item.

So I dont expect D4 to be straight up worse than GD, it probably does some things better and some things worse.

[Bludbonez]

It took Blizzard 12 years just to release Diablo 3. Worked fine at release. Then Blizzard shutdown Blizzard North and jacked D3 now. Where alot of players want nothing to do with the game. Now we have D4 without Blizzard North. So anyone who is a GAMER knows where that is heading! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCRzuvwMDUs

[makinaccion]

Originally posted by Question:

D3 also has a much better loot system due to smart loot, in GD (and most ARPGs) you get so much junk that you spend a significant amount of game play time managing your stash, checking for duplicates, checking to see which item has a higher roll, etc. It really drags the game play down when after clearing a few zones you have to stop playing to do stash management. In D3, i spent very little time managing the stash because most items dropped for my class and it was very obvious which items i should keep or dismantle.

Now hold on a second this is outright misinformation, a lie or a mistake because there's a loot filter in GD and it works perfectly, more so if you use rainbow filter mod, so if anyone keeps picking up irrelevant gear that depends only on the player desires to do so.

[powbam]

"smart loot" only works for Diablo because you can literally only choose one mastery. From that point on everything that drops is only for your class.

It would never work good in a game like Grim Dawn. Not only do you choose two masteries, each mastery can be specced multiple ways for very different builds.

This is why GD doesn't even attempt to do so-called smart loot. I find it weird that people can't see the obvious - that these are two very different approaches and it's like comparing apples to oranges on this topic.

I'll take dual masteries over smart loot any day of the week. The loot filter and keybinds + extensive time played and knowledge of the affixes have long since enabled me to show all loot on screen with a press, spend 2-3 seconds scanning the loot names, another few seconds picking up anything worth picking up, hiding it all with another press, and carrying on my way.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Bludbonez:

It took Blizzard 12 years just to release Diablo 3. Worked fine at release. Then Blizzard shutdown Blizzard North and jacked D3 now. Where alot of players want nothing to do with the game. Now we have D4 without Blizzard North. So anyone who is a GAMER knows where that is heading! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCRzuvwMDUs

Diablo 3 had some terrible itemization at release.

Honestly I think a better thing to do is consider ARPGs based on 'speed' and 'casual nature' or something.

Like PoE isn't terribly casual friendly and is ABSURDLY HYPER. D3 is casual and hyper.

Grim Dawn is a lot less hyper than either, a bit closer to D2 in pace, maybe a bit faster. I'd also say it's pretty casual friendly - there's a bunch of complexity but it's approachable and has a great campaign.

[Wintermute]

Originally posted by tukkek:

Always has been... https://i.imgflip.com/7qsysx.jpg

Jokes aside, Diablo 4 is very heavily made for and targeted towards casuals. Those people who just want to play a shallow action-RPG campaign then mess with end-game for maybe a week or two at most then never play again will probably think Diablo 4 is a masterpiece.

And that's OK, there are hundreds more times players like these than hardcore gamers.

For hardcore gamers, Grim Dawn and Path of Exile have been the best titles in the genre for very many years now, for different (and mostly polar-opposite) reasons. I still prefer GD much more but with POE2 getting a beta before the year is over, I'm looking forward to trying it!

if it's made for casuals, it shouldn't have seasonal structure. Nobody but dedicated ARPG fans will bother with that garbage content model.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Wintermute:

Originally posted by tukkek:

Always has been... https://i.imgflip.com/7qsysx.jpg

Jokes aside, Diablo 4 is very heavily made for and targeted towards casuals. Those people who just want to play a shallow action-RPG campaign then mess with end-game for maybe a week or two at most then never play again will probably think Diablo 4 is a masterpiece.

And that's OK, there are hundreds more times players like these than hardcore gamers.

For hardcore gamers, Grim Dawn and Path of Exile have been the best titles in the genre for very many years now, for different (and mostly polar-opposite) reasons. I still prefer GD much more but with POE2 getting a beta before the year is over, I'm looking forward to trying it!

if it's made for casuals, it shouldn't have seasonal structure. Nobody but dedicated ARPG fans will bother with that garbage content model.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of seasons. Honestly I doubt most casuals care though


I guess I should amend that - made for casuals and cosmetic buying whales.

[valium]

The seasons are designed to get people constantly coming back to do battlepass busy work. It is still designed for casual players, and it is hand-holding them towards doing what blizzard thinks they should be doing.

[vandal_vanir]

There is more challenge in Act 1 of Diablo 4 than in all of Grim Dawn.

I enjoy this game but I am sorry, it is *extremely* casual. All you do in Grim Dawn is pick your desired LMB and RMB attacks, max them, and spam them for 40 hours. You lazily stroll through the piles of loot and corpses, occasionally tap R for a potion, and the game is over.

People say the game is admittedly easy on the first and second run, but once you get to the post-postgame and then the REAL Grim Dawn begins. Sorry again, but even if that is true, that is horrible design. I should not have to play through a game several times to experience anything resembling a challenge. If the pre-endgame section is just rote mindless filler, why does it even exist?

Diablo 4 is a much more tactical game, as characters' basic skills are vastly weaker and have to be combo'd into attack patterns to beat even the simplest of enemies, and every random pack is a legitimate threat. Compared to Grim Dawn where the challenge is all statistical, no enemies outside of elites pose the slightest risk, and elite combat is largely a mechanical affair of basic resource management, which are over abundant in any case.

[Sonic Mirage 🎸]

Originally posted by Vandal_Vanir:

There is more challenge in Act 1 of Diablo 4 than in all of Grim Dawn.

I enjoy this game but I am sorry, it is *extremely* casual. All you do in Grim Dawn is pick your desired LMB and RMB attacks, max them, and spam them for 40 hours. You lazily stroll through the piles of loot and corpses, occasionally tap R for a potion, and the game is over.

People say the game is admittedly easy on the first and second run, but once you get to the post-postgame and then the REAL Grim Dawn begins. Sorry again, but even if that is true, that is horrible design. I should not have to play through a game several times to experience anything resembling a challenge. If the pre-endgame section is just rote mindless filler, why does it even exist?

Diablo 4 is a much more tactical game, as characters' basic skills are vastly weaker and have to be combo'd into attack patterns to beat even the simplest of enemies, and every random pack is a legitimate threat. Compared to Grim Dawn where the challenge is all statistical, no enemies outside of elites pose the slightest risk, and elite combat is largely a mechanical affair of basic resource management, which are over abundant in any case.

TLDR: Level 0 Steam account admits that they have never reached the endgame of Grim Dawn (and likely never played any of the mods)

[Quillithe]

It's true that Grim Dawn is pretty easy for a while, unless you play on veteran

But so is D4 when you're on world tier 1 which is the comparable setting.

Honestly I do wish there was a little bit more of the slower, more difficult stuff like d1 and d2 - though honestly those mainly translated into chugging potions as fast as possible at times

[vandal_vanir]

Originally posted by Sonic Mirage 🎸:

TLDR: Level 0 Steam account admits that they have never reached the endgame of Grim Dawn (and likely never played any of the mods)

Level 15 for the record, but people don't make legitimacy attacks when they have facts on their side. What is your point? If the game requires 3rd party modifications to be fun/challenging, you're just proving me right.

Originally posted by Quillithe:

It's true that Grim Dawn is pretty easy for a while, unless you play on veteran

But so is D4 when you're on world tier 1 which is the comparable setting.

Honestly I do wish there was a little bit more of the slower, more difficult stuff like d1 and d2 - though honestly those mainly translated into chugging potions as fast as possible at times

All veteran does is change the frequency with which you need to hit the potion button.

[Bludbonez]

Originally posted by Sonic Mirage 🎸:

Originally posted by Vandal_Vanir:

There is more challenge in Act 1 of Diablo 4 than in all of Grim Dawn.

I enjoy this game but I am sorry, it is *extremely* casual. All you do in Grim Dawn is pick your desired LMB and RMB attacks, max them, and spam them for 40 hours. You lazily stroll through the piles of loot and corpses, occasionally tap R for a potion, and the game is over.

People say the game is admittedly easy on the first and second run, but once you get to the post-postgame and then the REAL Grim Dawn begins. Sorry again, but even if that is true, that is horrible design. I should not have to play through a game several times to experience anything resembling a challenge. If the pre-endgame section is just rote mindless filler, why does it even exist?

Diablo 4 is a much more tactical game, as characters' basic skills are vastly weaker and have to be combo'd into attack patterns to beat even the simplest of enemies, and every random pack is a legitimate threat. Compared to Grim Dawn where the challenge is all statistical, no enemies outside of elites pose the slightest risk, and elite combat is largely a mechanical affair of basic resource management, which are over abundant in any case.

TLDR: Level 0 Steam account admits that they have never reached the endgame of Grim Dawn (and likely never played any of the mods)

@Vandal! So funny reading a comment from a dude who most likely never even played GD! Lvl 15?? WTH drugs are you on! Definitely without a clue! Sonic I agree with you!

[makinaccion]

Originally posted by Vandal_Vanir:

There is more challenge in Act 1 of Diablo 4 than in all of Grim Dawn.

I enjoy this game but I am sorry, it is *extremely* casual. All you do in Grim Dawn is pick your desired LMB and RMB attacks, max them, and spam them for 40 hours. You lazily stroll through the piles of loot and corpses, occasionally tap R for a potion, and the game is over.

People say the game is admittedly easy on the first and second run, but once you get to the post-postgame and then the REAL Grim Dawn begins. Sorry again, but even if that is true, that is horrible design. I should not have to play through a game several times to experience anything resembling a challenge. If the pre-endgame section is just rote mindless filler, why does it even exist?

Diablo 4 is a much more tactical game, as characters' basic skills are vastly weaker and have to be combo'd into attack patterns to beat even the simplest of enemies, and every random pack is a legitimate threat. Compared to Grim Dawn where the challenge is all statistical, no enemies outside of elites pose the slightest risk, and elite combat is largely a mechanical affair of basic resource management, which are over abundant in any case.

This ain't a good forum to farm clown points man, for that you want much bigger ones.