WPS and Proc questions... (Savagery Warder)

[ChickenWings]

I know questions like this are asked a lot, but googling couldnt get me a good answer.

1. If I have say Savagery and Feral Hunger.... if Feral Hunger procs, does its effects add to savagery or replace the effects of savagery?

2. Say I have the Oleron CP. 100% chance on crit. If I have multiple WPS skills, and I bind it to Savagery, would it only proc when Savagery crits, and not when the WPS proc and crit?

3. Upheaval.... same as CP, does it only proc on savagery and not on WPS crit procs?

If 2 and 3 are yes, then I am thinking that Oleron CP is not super useful with lots of WPS skills then, because it will proc a lot less often...

[rojimboo]

This is so far my understanding after completing Veteran with 2H Warder savager on HC. I maybe wrong, but this is what I noticed.

1. Feral hunger replaces savagery for that one hit.
2. On-crit attacks replace normal crits.
3. Same as 2, which is why Upheaval is an awful skill to use unless you heavily invest in it.

Oleron CP is still much better than Upheaval. Then again, anything is.

[ChickenWings]

Thanks for your reply. I also went and did some experimenting....

I maxed Markovian's Adv. and got rid of all other WPS skills. I noticed that when M.A. procced, the charge level of Savagery went up one, and if I quickly pulled up my char sheet, my dps for savagery had gone up, leading me to assume that the effects of savagery still apply even if a WPS is procced.

I then bound falcon swoop CP to savagery, and went and slowly attacked trash mobs to see if falcon swoop and M.A. could proc at the same time. To my somewhat happy surprise, I was able to get a falcon swoop proc on a M.A. proc, even though falcon swoop was bound to savagery. So, this also leads me to assume that WPS skills dont replace savagery, but simply add their effects onto it. And they can also trigger a CP bound to the attack that procs them. Therefore, you could theoretically have two CP trigger on the same attack, one bound to savagery (or another default attack replacer) and one bound to a WPS, although you would need a fair amount of luck to trigger the CP bound to WPS.

Edit: I may be missing something, if someone could confirm this that would be helpful :)

[rojimboo]

Originally posted by ChickenWings:

Thanks for your reply. I also went and did some experimenting....

I maxed Markovian's Adv. and got rid of all other WPS skills. I noticed that when M.A. procced, the charge level of Savagery went up one, and if I quickly pulled up my char sheet, my dps for savagery had gone up, leading me to assume that the effects of savagery still apply even if a WPS is procced.

I then bound hawk swoop CP to savagery, and went and slowly attacked trash mobs to see if hawk swoop and M.A. could proc at the same time. To my somewhat happy surprise, I was able to get a hawk swoop proc on a M.A. proc, even though hawk swoop was bound to savagery. So, this also leads me to assume that WPS skills dont replace savagery, but simply add their effects onto it. And they can also trigger a CP bound to the attack that procs them. Therefore, you could theoretically have two CP trigger on the same attack, one bound to savagery (or another default attack replacer) and one bound to a WPS, although you would need a fair amount of luck to trigger the CP bound to WPS.

Edit: I may be missing something, if someone could confirm this that would be helpful :)

Wow that would be great news if indeed that's how it works.

[Halcyon]

So my understanding may be wrong but here's how I have come to understand the mechanics.

Only one WPS can proc at a given time, however, devotion skills are not WPS. WPS occur in addition to the base attack replacer, which is why savagery/fire strike are so good with WPS. This gives you essentially three 'slots' for each attack, with the basic attack, the wps, and the devotion proc.

So for your answers:
1) Savagery and Feral Hunger both apply to that hit because savagery is the base attack, Feral Hunger is the WPS
2) Yes, the devotion skill can only proc on crits from the skill it is bound to, meaning that you should bind your crit effects to crit triggered skills like upheaval or they will happen less often. In your test case, savagery and MA occurred simultaneously, meaning that you are correct in thinking that you could have Savagery/MA/Oleron occur.
3) On crit effects replace regular crits, on crit Devotions are in addition to regular crits. Upheaval(skill)/Oleron(devotion) can proc simultaneously which makes upheaval or any on crit effect a good affix for on crit devotions since they will always trigger. Savagery is replaced by upheaval in this case, so you can't have the ultra powerful savagery/upheaval/oleron crit occur.

[Inkaflare]

Originally posted by Halcyon:

So my understanding may be wrong but here's how I have come to understand the mechanics.

Only one WPS can proc at a given time, however, devotion skills are not WPS. WPS occur in addition to the base attack replacer, which is why savagery/fire strike are so good with WPS. This gives you essentially three 'slots' for each attack, with the basic attack, the wps, and the devotion proc.

So for your answers:
1) Savagery and Feral Hunger both apply to that hit because savagery is the base attack, Feral Hunger is the WPS
2) Yes, the devotion skill can only proc on crits from the skill it is bound to, meaning that you should bind your crit effects to crit triggered skills like upheaval or they will happen less often. In your test case, savagery and MA occurred simultaneously, meaning that you are correct in thinking that you could have Savagery/MA/Oleron occur.
3) On crit effects replace regular crits, on crit Devotions are in addition to regular crits. Upheaval(skill)/Oleron(devotion) can proc simultaneously which makes upheaval or any on crit effect a good affix for on crit devotions since they will always trigger. Savagery is replaced by upheaval in this case, so you can't have the ultra powerful savagery/upheaval/oleron crit occur.

This is all correct as far as I know. WPS do not replace the attack skill that is used to proc them, otherwise they would be awful. Instead, if you consider that savagery deals 150% weapon damage at rank 16, any WPS that procs from your attacks using Savagery will deal 1,5x the damage that is stated on them.
Upheaval is not a WPS and thus behaves differently - it does indeed replace Savagery for the attack that it is triggered on. Upheaval is not a very good skill to be honest.