Confused by quest system

[1337Dude]

Is it just me or is the questing system in this game obtuse? They'll vaguely tell you where a quest is and I'd spend 30+ minutes combing an area just to find what I need for the quest. For example, there's an early quest where you need to slay 3 mini-bosses. I could find 2, never could find the 3rd. As a result I don't get any other quests in the quest chain.

My complaint extends to the other quests as well. *Occasionally* there will be a map marker that gives a hint on where to go, but most of the time it literally feels like completing most quests in this game is like finding needles in a haystack.

[smh]

"press X to win" generation, lol.

[1337Dude]

Originally posted by smh:

"press X to win" generation, lol.

No, it's just poor game design.

Take Morrowind, for example. It has much less hand-holding than Grim Dawn but also has much better quest design. In Morrowind, you're actually given descriptive quest descriptions. It doesn't hold your hand, but gives you the tools to figure out where the quest is yourself.

Grim Dawn doesn't give any tools. The quests just say "Go to XYZ Area and do this", with XYZ area often being a giant open area. You go to that area, kill nearly every mob in the area, and then you're a couple levels above whatever quest so there's never any challenge presented in the quest aside from just mindlessly wandering around.

Seems like the quests in Grim Dawn were slapped together in a few minutes. I noticed multiple instances where the quests aren't even actually where the quest log says they're supposed to be. They really should go back and flesh things out a bit more, and maybe clean it up (coming from someone who beat the game btw).

[Mordtziel]

I'll be honest, that quest threw me for a loop at first until I managed to complete it. The first guy is like level 8 or 9 while the last one is level 12 (normal/veteran) so you're not exactly supposed to run into each one immediately. And honestly I prefer this system where they don't put a giant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ beacon on top of the quest targets and aren't completed in 30 seconds after entering an area.

The "press x to win generation" comment is accurate. You can list any game you want as a counterpoint, but the answer for one game that's targeted at one audience is not the answer for every game and audience.

[Pls fix Matchmaking]

First of, you're talking about the 'Bounty System' aren't you? That'S something different from 'Quests' In any way, no yor're pretty much alone with your opinion as you can see. Besides the fact that Bounties are optional, they're not half as 'obscure' as you make them out to be. I had like maybe one time where i felt like i was searching the needle in the haystack. And no Morrowinf is ♥♥♥♥ in comparison. Lol

[1337Dude]

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

IThe "press x to win generation" comment is accurate. You can list any game you want as a counterpoint, but the answer for one game that's targeted at one audience is not the answer for every game and audience.

Nothing about this comment makes any sense. There's nothing intrinsic to Grim Dawn that quests are supposed to be hard to find. There's nothing it adds to the game and there's nothing to support your argument that it was even intentional.

This was never the case in Titan Quest, or any of the games it was inspired from. It genuinely seems like a mistake on the developer's part.

[1337Dude]

Originally posted by I have no idea what i'm doing:

First of, you're talking about the 'Bounty System' aren't you? That'S something different from 'Quests' In any way, no yor're pretty much alone with your opinion as you can see. Besides the fact that Bounties are optional, they're not half as 'obscure' as you make them out to be. I had like maybe one time where i felt like i was searching the needle in the haystack. And no Morrowinf is ♥♥♥♥ in comparison. Lol

No, I'm talking about the quest system actually. First time beating Grim Dawn I realized I didn't even finish half the quests. Second time through (which is right now), I'm figuring out why. The quests are hidden around the map, often not in areas described by the NPC. If you'd like I can boot the game up for the game and give you more specific examples aside from "first quest with 3 mini bosses". But if you played the game you probably should know exactly what I'm talking about

I mean, I understand if you got lucky finding many of them and think "oh, well, I like this game so I have to defend it". But how can you defend quests not being in the spots described by the NPC with no other indicators?

Reminds me of Silent Hill 2, where in spot in the game you have to drop an item down some garbage chute to proceed. They don't really give any indicators that you're supposed to do it, you're just supposed to know through hours of trial and error.

Meanwhile, all the younger kids these days just play games with a walkthrough in hand and can't really seem to understand when people are frustrated when they can't find things in games. Literally, the only challenge I've even discovered in this game, is finding some quests. I don't even think I've ever even died in this game, even with veteran mode.

[Der Klotz von Rhodotz]

Originally posted by 1337MechaHitler:

Meanwhile, all the younger kids these days just play games with a walkthrough in hand and can't really seem to understand when people are frustrated when they can't find things in games. Literally, the only challenge I've even discovered in this game, is finding some quests. I don't even think I've ever even died in this game, even with veteran mode.

The next one complaining about the game being too easy even on veteran mode...
My guess is that you will have to reroll your character in Elite or Ultimate if it's your first one because somehow you will be hitting a wall somewhere unless you got a perfect understanding from the very beginning of what the game is going to throw at you. Normal is the difficulty where players are supposed to get the hang of things. Veteran is normal 1.5 if you want a bit of a challenge right away. Normal in Path of Exile is similar by the way. That's how those games are designed, usually. The higher difficulties is where the interesting loot and challenge come into play.

[SevR]

Originally posted by 1337MechaHitler:

No, it's just poor game design.

Being "poor" is subjective. Grim Dawn developers seem to have designed the quest to foster exploration and free thinking, as opposed to the being led by the nose like a good little lemming each generation suffers more and more from.

[mikeydsc]

Hey!!! Look !! someone made a guide for folks that need some hand holding - no kidding!! It actually has ALL the quests available with some screenies too!!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=636468301

[stocky102000ii]

If you are not uncovering every inch of the fog of war on your first playthrough then your going to miss out on things. If you take your time to uncover the map its impossible not to complete the quests unless you just dont pay attention. On later playthroughs you start to ignore bits of the map you know hold nothing of real interest. If you can't be bothered uncovering the map in an ARPG first run through, then frankly you should not be playing the genre.

[kekkuli]

Seems like you should just pay more attention and explore the maps...also keep an eye on minimap, if you see a star there, you are close to some quest objective. I finished all quests (expect some hidden ones) in my first playthrough by just exloring all the maps and killing all the enemies.

But, it will get easier and easier in time, because maps are not randomly generated.

[Mr. Vulcanator]

Get the DAIL: Full Grimmest Mod and you'll have challenge. All enemies are at your level or slightly above (in the case of bosses and heroes) and for some reason there's up to three of each boss at a time.

[1337Dude]

Okay, like I mentioned earlier, here's an example.

Quest: Something for Nothing "In the hopes that you will go out there and put down the fallen soldiers Farros, Jillius and Neggan, who are still roaming around Wightmire..." (Screenshot -> http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/477771552690611519/69DAC83065867E41AC3CC385C842BA8F15220B7B/ )

Here's a screenshot of me just having fully explored Wightmire, indicated by the green on the map (for the 3rd time, I might add)

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/477771552690611383/C805B0F57EDA856F2503D7F3108AB23BA014E63A/

This leaves me with 2 conclusions: either the quest log doesn't accurately depict where the quest actually takes place, or either the game's just bugged.

Originally posted by Werejellyfish:

Originally posted by 1337MechaHitler:

Meanwhile, all the younger kids these days just play games with a walkthrough in hand and can't really seem to understand when people are frustrated when they can't find things in games. Literally, the only challenge I've even discovered in this game, is finding some quests. I don't even think I've ever even died in this game, even with veteran mode.

The next one complaining about the game being too easy even on veteran mode...
My guess is that you will have to reroll your character in Elite or Ultimate...

I would love to start the game out on Elite or Ultimate. Too bad you can't. Maybe it didn't occur to you that perhaps not everyone wants to grind for 20 hours before getting to the challenge.

Originally posted by Mr. Vulcanator:

Get the DAIL: Full Grimmest Mod and you'll have challenge. All enemies are at your level or slightly above (in the case of bosses and heroes) and for some reason there's up to three of each boss at a time.

I appreciate that. Maybe I'll download it. Honestly, I don't care about the lack of challenge. Very rarely do ARPG's have challenging campaign modes until 20+ hours in, on unlocked difficulties. One thing I really liked about Titan Quest is that the game actually presented decent challenge right out of the box.

I'm just saying when most of the challenge built into the first 20 hours of the game is just finding the quests, then perhaps there's a problem.

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

Hey!!! Look !! someone made a guide for folks that need some hand holding - no kidding!! It actually has ALL the quests available with some screenies too!!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=636468301

It's not a lot of fun using walkthroughs to play through games IMO. Btw, I looked at the guide and it doesn't even seem to have the info on the quest I used on my example...

[Grumplestiltskin]

Originally posted by SevR:

Originally posted by 1337MechaHitler:

No, it's just poor game design.

Being "poor" is subjective. Grim Dawn developers seem to have designed the quest to foster exploration and free thinking, as opposed to the being led by the nose like a good little lemming each generation suffers more and more from.

/topic

[Obsidian]

LOL! Grim Dawn is an ARPG. Don't compare it to Morrowind. Just explore the map. It's not that big. You will find him. Hint: Those three don't actually roam - they are always in the same location each time. Just fully explore the map.