Magic hitrate

[Treskittle]

Is there a particular reason they gave magic a hitrate? To me it seems like they took away one of the key advantages to ever go magical damage which is high power, no miss rate, but costs a lot of magic to cast and you give up defensive prowess for the damage output. Now it's like... you gave up all your defenses, have to sit there to cast, and you'll still maybe not hit despite the graphic clearly overlaying.

YEs yes, this isn't diablo/whatever other dungeon crawler, but to me that ♥♥♥♥ is a staple in any game.

[Fayte]

I'm playing range, I have 100% hit and 12.5% crit, and I miss all the time. Especially if the enemy has a shield. I'm playing titan quest too, I feel your pain.

[Quiximo]

Spells have advantages inherent in not having to rely heavily on a weapon for damage. Spells tend to have unique effects and capabilities that weapon skills rarely see. Dropping a curse or an instant speed screen wide nuke is a big deal.

Getting to ignore a core stat for sake of OP pew glass cannonry is not, nor ever was, a good idea. Spells were never properly balanced against melee in Diablo. Spells and melee functioned like two separate systems with occasional cross overs.

You will probably be celebrating this change when you get used to it. Gone are the days where all you can do against spells is stack a resist and play bullet hell. Melee players always used to hate spells because they ignored mechanics they use to survive. Spells always had unfair advantages over attacks. Now spells can not only miss, they can be dodged and blocked as well. This is a good thing when you're on the receiving end.

Spells, OMHO, are in a good place right now. You'll like things after you learn how to take advantage of them.

[Fayte]

Originally posted by Garheardt the Black:

Spells have advantages inherent in not having to rely heavily on a weapon for damage. Spells tend to have unique effects and capabilities that weapon skills rarely see. Dropping a curse or an instant speed screen wide nuke is a big deal.

Getting to ignore a core stat for sake of OP pew glass cannonry is not, nor ever was, a good idea. Spells were never properly balanced against melee in Diablo. Spells and melee functioned like two separate systems with occasional cross overs.

You will probably be celebrating this change when you get used to it. Gone are the days where all you can do against spells is stack a resist and play bullet hell. Melee players always used to hate spells because they ignored mechanics they use to survive. Spells always had unfair advantages over attacks. Now spells can not only miss, they can be dodged and blocked as well. This is a good thing when you're on the receiving end.

Spells, OMHO, are in a good place right now. You'll like things after you learn how to take advantage of them.

Yeah.... except with melee builds you can spec way more for survival. Caster off hands, 2 hand guns (I know 2 hand melee, but even then you tend to be a lot tankier). I'm rocking a 2 hand gun, and missing constantly with 100% hit rating is rough. No piercing in the fire strike line. I have like 600 cunning at lvl 34, says I have 100% accuracy, and yet its amazing how often I just miss.

It is nice they play by the same rules, but more of the same isn't always a good thing (I think this change is a net good too, I like being able to crit with spells and range ... but missing with full accuracy.... its so annoying trying to play a more glass cannon type of character, it 'forces' me to spec more survival....).

[Fayte]

By Piercing I mean chance to shoot through enemies.

[mikeydsc]

The OA value is only against the LAST TARGET you fought. The next target could be different depending on its DA. You do not have 100% to hit on evervything. You will miss on some boss type creatures. Trash mobs you should hit 99.9% of time unless your aim is poor.

[Legion]

Some creatures also have dodge skills, or can afflict you with debuffs that lower your accuracy or make you fumble. Ghosts and disease/poison champions for example.

Also stacking Cunning through your stat points is not the ideal way to fix low hit chance. Raw OA, or large amounts of Cunning, or +% to Cunning/OA from Devotions and items is usually the better option. Sinking all your points into Cunning means you lose out on health usually.

[Fayte]

I have lots of +OA too, including %. I'm going fire and physical, so cunning is a good fit. I get extra elemental damage from points in inner focus (arcanist). Even agasint bosses I'm getting 90%+ hit, but miss way more. I took the Kraken costalation (tons of 2 hand range damage, so not worried so much about a few extra dps).

I get enemies might have dodge ranged attack, its rough in this game as ranged though.

Something close to this: http://grimcalc.com/build/A458i0G
I have all blue and green armor wiht componenets and pretty good resists, so I'm not dying yet. Lvl 34. THe misses are brutal though.

[Treskittle]

Originally posted by Garheardt the Black:

Spells have advantages inherent in not having to rely heavily on a weapon for damage. Spells tend to have unique effects and capabilities that weapon skills rarely see. Dropping a curse or an instant speed screen wide nuke is a big deal.

Getting to ignore a core stat for sake of OP pew glass cannonry is not, nor ever was, a good idea. Spells were never properly balanced against melee in Diablo. Spells and melee functioned like two separate systems with occasional cross overs.

You will probably be celebrating this change when you get used to it. Gone are the days where all you can do against spells is stack a resist and play bullet hell. Melee players always used to hate spells because they ignored mechanics they use to survive. Spells always had unfair advantages over attacks. Now spells can not only miss, they can be dodged and blocked as well. This is a good thing when you're on the receiving end.

Spells, OMHO, are in a good place right now. You'll like things after you learn how to take advantage of them.

I'm not going to celebrate this because it's not what I want from magic. I've playe dthis game for long enough to realize it's simply not what I want and i'm going to play games that I feel are better (namely path of exile).

but here's the thing, you mention diablo and "only being able to stack resists", Magic damage was the ONLY thing you can reduce as far as damage goes (diablo 1 and 2) because armor just (terribly unless you specced/had teh godliest gear) increases your dodge rate like in D&D. but the thing is that the melee characters, as someone mentioned, generally have teh raw numbers to deal with it.

Of course, I generally hate hitrates in games like these and will almost always go for the no-misses option because reliability > big number crits IMO. I personally feel it's a bit retarded seeing my valiant sword+board hero try and fight this big bad monster only for my sword swinging to be ultimately ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid looking because none of my attacks are hitting even though I'm swinging right through its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ throat.

[mikeydsc]

Then get more OA vs his DA.

[Quiximo]

1- You haven't played this game long enough. Hitting isn't difficult. Trying to glass cannon is. Range or not, defense is a big deal.

2- You mention D&D. Melee miss in that game as well, as do many spells. There is even magic resist that acts like armor against spells and damage reduction of many kinds. The games assumed your characters are doing more than just standing still when they are attacked. Even still, it's a well known fact in D&D that casters outshine melee in the later levels.

3- In D2, physical damage reduction WAS introduced. A character with enough stacked reduction was nearly unkillable with physical damage.

4- melee characters in grim dawn DO NOT have bonus toughness from being melee. This gives range a huge early advantage. Melee weapons tend to deal a bit more damage, and they should for the trade off of not having the safety of range. If you sacrifice your toughness to make up the difference as ranged, that's on you. There is nothing to stop a player from having a squishy melee character or a tough ranged character.

POE is a good game. If you like it more, have a great time. Grim Dawn is also a good game, and it's mechanics are solid too.

[Treskittle]

Originally posted by Garheardt the Black:

1- You haven't played this game long enough. Hitting isn't difficult. Trying to glass cannon is. Range or not, defense is a big deal.

2- You mention D&D. Melee miss in that game as well, as do many spells. There is even magic resist that acts like armor against spells and damage reduction of many kinds. The games assumed your characters are doing more than just standing still when they are attacked. Even still, it's a well known fact in D&D that casters outshine melee in the later levels.

3- In D2, physical damage reduction WAS introduced. A character with enough stacked reduction was nearly unkillable with physical damage.

4- melee characters in grim dawn DO NOT have bonus toughness from being melee. This gives range a huge early advantage. Melee weapons tend to deal a bit more damage, and they should for the trade off of not having the safety of range. If you sacrifice your toughness to make up the difference as ranged, that's on you. There is nothing to stop a player from having a squishy melee character or a tough ranged character.

POE is a good game. If you like it more, have a great time. Grim Dawn is also a good game, and it's mechanics are solid too.

1. I'm sorry, playing the game for nearly a day straight in game time isn't enough time to... OK bud.

2. There's a reason i hate D&D as well, the game is 100% chance which cannot be fun to me. If you like it, ok (A level 20+ character, rivaling/outmatching godhood, has a chance to miss against any creature technically, to me that's retarded considering how crazyily supernatural your characters are at that point).

3. You had to spec for that and twink to hell and back for that to be a relevant stat. Playing the game normally, you're not going to be stackin that from the get go. You CAN go for just raw damage reduction, but i'm not indulging this line of thought any further because you're just being extremely semantical with this.

4. They don't have bonus toughness from being melee, no, but the melee characters tend to have the better Physique, thereby more HP, and having access to heavier armor, thereby granting more damage reduction... You see- you see where this is going?

I'm not arguing tha ranged characters should have high defenses AND high power.

The only thing I'm annoyed at is that one of the biggest draws to magic is taken away in this game for no trade off. Magic is still strong, yes, but it's not reliable, like in virtually every other good dungeon crawler. This is not something I like in gaming, RNG, and it's something that needs to be used creatively in order to be fun. Having a binary hit/miss is not a fun thing in action games, I'm sorry, that's just how I see it. If you like it, that's fine, I don't like the idea that I'm swinging my weapon, slinging my spell and it physically goes through the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ but the RNG decides that didn't happen. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dumb and it looks terrible as well, it just looks sloppy as ♥♥♥♥.

If you like it, by all means, I'm just tired of struggling to play a game that's so, IMO, backwards on this crucial mechanic.

[Legion]

If you are struggling through normal, I'm afraid you may just suck at video games entirely.

[Fayte]

My only complaint is it can be very hard for you to stop enemies from closing to melee. Event hough I 1 shot all of them... the misses make it so unreliable.

[Quiximo]

1- Your profile says you've played 18 hours. I'm nearing 600 and have played since early access. I've played enough to know that you don't have enough experience to judge the game's mechanics. I don't know all of them, but I'd be willing to bet I know more than you.

2- Everything has an element of chance. As in life, all you can do is hedge the roll in your favor. Dice represent that. If you dislike RPGs because of chance, you should probably read a book.

3- Equipping a few best in slot items didn't require a spec or twinking.

4- This game allows any class combination to play whatever roll they want. Melee characters tend to have better physique because they click the button that adds physique, it doesn't happen by accident. A ranged soldier+ anything has just as much chance of having a good life pool if they want it.

The big draw of magic is having magic. Stereotypical, comically thick spectacles aside, few roll wizards because of terrible depth perception.

It sounds like this game isn't for you. Thank you for your constructive feed back and have a great time with Path of Exile.

[Fendelphi]

Some spells and spell like abilities tend to be more powerful than simple "attacks". Either in pure damage, AoE or flexibility. So even if you miss at times, when you hit, you hit hard.
On top of that, spells can CRIT. The stat that determines this chance is the same that determines the hit chance.

Spells also have a higher base chance to hit, compared to melee or ranged attacks. You dont need as much OA to get good results, compared to melee/ranged attackers.

Some spells dont care about hit chance at all.

If you struggle with enemies closing in on you, make sure to equip some control abilities. Each class have a few, so it shouldnt be too hard.
It is also ok to run away a bit and break the engagement, then try a second time to finish the enemy off.