Bleeding builds completly unplayable?!

[n.shapoori]

Hello,
I have only one bleeding build (Warder) and it's almost impossible to play.
The build does good damage and has high life leech.
Unfortunately it doesn't stand a chance against reflective enemies.
Hitting yourself in the face with an axe or a gun will always hurt no matter what build you are playing.
But with most builds that just means taking a noticeable slump in your HP, but that's it.
Just pop a potion and you're good.
But with this build a single hit on a reflective enemy (with his aura up) means certain death[\i].
I can literally watch my char bleeding out without being able to do anything about it, which makes it so much more frustrating than just getting one-shotted.
One could argue it's because it's a DoT build, but I have other DoT builds (acid/poison dervish, cabalist with Bloody Pox) and I never have that much problems with them.

I mean when I notice an enemy has a reflective aura I'll of course not hit him when it's up - because if I did that would be to blame on my own stupidity.
But sometimes - especially when you are in large crowds of monsters - you might just not notice it.
Or you attack an enemy with his aura down and within the next ms it suddenly activates his aura.
Or if you have attacks that target multiple targets at once (e. g. Blade Arc).
This is so frustrating.

I'll try to attach a screenshot where you can see what kind of dmage I'm taking from that reflected bleeding damage status effect.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2682451490
It says:

Bleeding
1711 Damage Every Second
65 Seconds Remaining
[\i]
Even if I had 100% reduction in bleeding duration that would still leave 32.5s, which most likely would still kill me.
Also, there aren't that many items which provide reduction to bleeding duration.
In GT I only found 16 search results for "reduction in bleeding duration"
The only other thing I got is Heart Of The Wild which gives a 25% reduction on lvl 10, but that's just like a drop in the bucket.
Btw, my char has 83% bleeding resistance.

What can I do?
Are bleeding builds just not viable (anymore)?
Should I just respec into some other damage type?

[phenir]

Kymon and death's vigil factions have jewelry augments that reduce reflection damage. A couple devotions also give reflection resistance.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

increase your bleed resist
increase your bleed duration reduction
and/or get Reflected Damage Reduction; it's possible to get 100% of this stat tho that much usually isn't necessary for bleed builds

[Anathema]

This made my bleed build unplayable until I learned to stack reflected damage reduction. Owl + Crane devotions + Titan Plating brought me to 70%. I didn't have any more problems after that.

[WONKA]

Doesnt stand a chance? Literaly , bleeding is strongest thnig in GD
Link your resistances

[Anathema]

Originally posted by shadowdancer:

Doesnt stand a chance? Literaly , bleeding is strongest thnig in GD
Link your resistances

Resistances won't save you when you hit a reflective enemy and you have +300% bleeding duration. You need reflected damage reduction.

[Mochan]

Bleed is the strongest damage option in the game. I have literally never had this problem and my bleed stacks do like 80k ticks. Just up your resistances.

[⭕TheSodaman]

Edit: I cannot figure out why my quote attempt is not working.

@n.shapoori, would the constellation, Ulo the Keeper of the Waters, help with this? The constellation has a Cleansing Water that you can assign to an attack you may not use as often to remove an ailment or damage over time effect every so often.

Otherwise, I think as Anathema said, picking up enough Reflected Damage Reduction that between your health regeneration, attack damage converted to health, and/or your potions can sustain you.

[n.shapoori]

Thank you for your answers.
I heeded your advice and put a Titan Plating (33% reflected damage reduction) into my helmet, but unfortunately that didn't help much.
I just made s creenshot where I'm taking even more damage than on my last screenshot (which I took before I used the Titan Plating).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2689901948
It says:

Bleeding
2451 Damage Every Second
71 Seconds Remaining
[\i]
Most likely this time the damage is higher because some devotions / skills procced that didn't the last time.
I also remember having changed my devotion setup recently.
Needless to say that I will bleed to death within a matter of seconds with this kind of damage.
Now you can assume what kind of damage that would be without[\i] the Titan Plating.
So either as a bleeding build I really absolutely need >90% reflected damage reduction or I'm doing something wrong.

Btw, here's my build:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/Q2zW4oaV
I know that the distribution of my attribute points is not optimal.
I would only need 389 spirit and 1035 str for my equipment, so that I could put the rest in cunning.

I'm really thinking about respeccing into a boring Primal Strike Warder as currently the bleeding build is almost unplayable for me.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

then slot another plating, and take owl devo, it's not complicated

PS, why do you not have clean sweep if you're using savagery?

[⭕TheSodaman]

Originally posted by n.shapoori:

...

Thanks to your Grim Tools, I am just learning that we can remove points from Crossroads, I think? e.g. completing a constellation, then dropping from Crossroads. I'm just using the Grim Tools for this.

In this case, if you drop the Ghoul constellation.
Invest one point into Purple and Gold.
Invest in Owl for Damage Reflected Reduction and some Bleeding Damage stuff.
Drop Wolverine constellation.
Invest one point into Gold.
Pickup Crane constellation for Damage Reflected Reduction.
And then can you really drop the Gold from Crossroads after completing Crane?
And then slot two Titan Platings for head and chest.
Might have to figure out where you want to get the other damage resistances though.

And this might be the only way I can think of without shifting dramatically toward that status effect removal constellation. Also, I'm less aware of options available late game, so this is purely from the GrimTools.

[Spud the Spud]

Originally posted by n.shapoori:

What can I do?
Are bleeding builds just not viable (anymore)?
Should I just respec into some other damage type?

Your devotions are an absolute mess. That's why you're having problems. I whipped this up in a couple minutes, not a finished product by should resolve your issues if you want to finish what was started, I think. By all means double check what I did and make sure things get assigned and that it's not flawed, I may have missed something (or many things) as I just burned through it quickly and double checked nothing. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NX6pmPV

This leaves you with 9 devotion points to set, to fine tune things. Your character sheet damage went up, though idk how much that will play out (or if it went down in practice) due to procs and changes in the devotions.

So, what I did. I ditched Mondrogen in favor of Unknown Soldier + Oleron. I picked up some reflected damage reduction in there, and changed out a couple of your armor Component selections to give you over 100% reflected damage reduction (I think? If it's additive and not multiplicitive, I didn't check). Also, your Wardstone component choice on your necklace is 100% bad, your bleed and elemental resists are overcapped by 46% and 55% respectively, and that's just adding more to the overcapping, so I replaced it with a Runebound Topaz to help get your stun resist up. I replaced the Udenbog component in your boots with Mark of Mondrogen, for the run speed (10%, less time running more time hitting stuff/getting out of aoe damage).

I suggest going through your component and augments more fully, as well as looking at your attack damage converted to health numbers, those are probably a good deal lower. But you have 9 dev points left, so you could pick up Ghoul again if you like, and so on. I did pick up Dryad's Blessing to help compensate, to some degree. I'm not sure how great a choice Oleron is, for axes instead of a pierce damage, but again this is just me going through things quickly to present a different thing for you to weigh against your current choices, mostly. I didn't assign any of them.

It literally took me longer to write up this response than I spent working on the changes, so think of them just a first pass and just something to consider, don't blindly implement them without your own judgement, I take no responsibility for the results, decide for yourself. But do compare the numbers with your current build, you'll see the bleed damage and physical damage and so on look pretty comparable, for starters.

Edit: Upon second thought, you could just swap out your chest component for the Titan Plating for another 33% reflected damage reduction and that might be enough by itself, idk. But that's fast and easy to try, at least. I'd start with that.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NX6pmPV

he is a bloodrager guillotine bleed warder
and not only did you not take any RR at all, no flat, no huntress, you went oleron which is worse than Mogdrogen, no Kraken, wtf is this devo map? it's like the worst advice i've ever seen... - and you lost him like 20% attack speed

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

I replaced the Udenbog component in your boots with Mark of Mondrogen, for the run speed (10%, less time running more time hitting stuff/getting out of aoe damage).

you version has less run speed than his original setup ffs do you even look at stats or something??

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

It literally took me longer to write up this response than I spent working on the changes,

i can see why, it's an awful devo map

[Spud the Spud]

Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NX6pmPV

he is a bloodrager guillotine bleed warder
and not only did you not take any RR at all, no flat, no huntress, you went oleron which is worse than Mogdrogen, no Kraken, wtf is this devo map? it's like the worst advice i've ever seen... - and you lost him like 20% attack speed

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

It literally took me longer to write up this response than I spent working on the changes,

i can see why, it's an awful devo map

Yet, it solves the problem of him dying to his own damage. Very useful of you to not solve it but whine from the peanut gallery.

Edit: I see you're still editing more stuff in, so you have fun whining all you like. I made the point well enough that his map is a mess, and there are other options. You want to spend time fixing it, go ahead. I spent time showing that other builds are possible, and gave a quick and dirty idea (like oleron/unknown instead of the bear). Sure, it's far from perfect, as I'm not going to spend the time to make it perfect just for the hell of it. Getting it right and weighing options takes more time than I care to invest. You want to do it, then do it, go ahead, and have a lovely day.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

Yet, it solves the problem of him dying to his own damage. Very useful of you to not solve it but whine from the peanut gallery.

scroll up and you will see me exactly tell him what to do to solve his issue
without completely screwing up his build or devo map, much less making a much worse build/devo map that doesn't even cover the game basics
make something half competent, then you can start get snarky

[Spud the Spud]

Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

Originally posted by Spud the Spud:

Yet, it solves the problem of him dying to his own damage. Very useful of you to not solve it but whine from the peanut gallery.

scroll up and you will see me exactly tell him what to do to solve his issue
without completely screwing up his build or devo map, much less making a much worse build/devo map that doesn't even cover the game basics
make something half competent, then you can start get snarky

Holy crap lol. do you ever shut up? Severely emotionally invested in random forum thread, huh? Ok, you win, you're the boss. Haha.