Giant's Blood vs. Dryad's Blessing

[Matthew]

Let's suppose you only have available points to get one or the other.

Let's also suppose this build cannot really exploit attack damage converted to health, so "ignore both just get more adcth" isn't an option.

And finally, let's suppose you are only grabbing the first 3 into Behemoth (10 hp/sec, 300 hp, devotion proc) while obviously the full Dryad devotion will need to be unlocked.

Which would you choose and why?

Just curious on people's thoughts. You can expand as much as you want (e.g., you may already have orbs for Behemoth because of other devotion x and y, so less sacrifice etc.)

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

dryads blessing, = possible constant uptime (8sec cd, 10sec duration) (4sec cd 10sec uptime max lvl)
giant has 30sec cd and 5sec uptime, (10sec uptime max level=20sec "buff"downtime minimum 30sec heal interval downtime)
imo it's no contest, despite giant healing 2½x more(but i also suck at synergies+proper mechanics)
and bind dryad to something giving it 100% chance to proc, well, there is your insta guaranteed heal+buff at will

[Jet Uppercut]

Dryad takes the place of an offensive devotion and can only proc if you're attacking. It also doesn't give as much of a burst heal as Giant's Blood. For it to be as effective as one proc of Giant's Blood without factoring in the HP regen it would need to go off three times which would take 12 seconds. It's great as a passive heal factor if you stick it on totems or something like that, but it's not great if you want to use it to not die as your only defensive devotion.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

would need to go off three times which would take 12 seconds. It's great as a passive heal factor if you stick it on totems or something like that, but it's not great if you want to use it to not die as your only defensive devotion.

giant toes heal 20%+ 1k +240hps x10 -every 30sec (well actually 40 since the hps full added effect takes place after proc + elapsed cd)
dryad does 8% + 350 +0hps, every 4secs
30/4=7,5
7x8%+350 =56% +2450 total hp restored, vs giants 20% +3400,
so unless your chars hp somehow makes those 1k =36% of your total hp, how is giant "better" even from a defensive standpoint, since it heals less total, despite "sacrificing" an attached devo skill to an offensive ability?
i don't get that logic,
waiting for a heal to proc (out of your control), every 30secs,
vs a smaller heal yes, but combined totalling more, and most importantly, procs at will, when you decide/want so it's reliable, to your needs/rotation

(not criticizing, since i'm very meh at this game, i'd like to get the reasoning behind this choice so i might learn something)

[Bob]

Depends how much hp you have. If you are lacking a good hp pool, then that constant heal wont matter much at all, and the same amount of points spent in the behemoth will get you a nice chunk more than the dryad.

If the build in question is a tanky one and already has more hp than it needs and can use the extra spirit from the dryad, then I would probably go with that healing over time as opposed to a burst heal every now and then.

In this case... I kind of feel like the points leading up to the abilities need to be taken into more of a consideration than the procs themselves.

[Matthew]

Unfortunately I don't think you can bind Dryad to totems

It would be fun to create a super Wendigo

[Jet Uppercut]

It heals less total but more at once. 8% plus 350 doesn't compare to 20% plus 1200 when it comes to stopping you from dying when you get hit. You might not have the extra seconds to heal up before you're dead with Dryad. Hell you might be stunned or frozen or otherwise not able to use your skill and suddenly you have no more healing. Doesn't happen with Giant's Blood. More reliable plus better burst heal.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

It heals less total but more at once. 8% plus 350 doesn't compare to 20% plus 1200 when it comes to stopping you from dying when you get hit. l.

i get that, but sicne it's a proc, out of your control, what if you are hit with a "whimp" attack that procs giants, before getting the big smash?,
how is that more reliable?
with dryad you could helps assist the near 100%hp uptime as a spam heal, making it easier to soak big attacks
since (if i'm understanding the mechanics correct) a proper big smash that would kill you, would do so anyway, as giant toes would be triggerd after your initial hp was removed, (and the initial hp wasn't enough to soak the attack because not at full hp)
so only if a big smash happened, that wasn't enough to kill you anyway, would you then get a burst of 20%,
that would save you from what?
since it's "only" 12% more than dryad,
if you already got taken that big a chunk out prior, wouldn't those 12% more hp just get sucked away in teh next hit anyway?,
and you'd still have no means of healing up (that you wouldn't also have otherwise had with dryad,- pots etc)

or you saying that those 12% hp would be enough to survive (not only the next 4secs until when dryad would have hit), but last long enough for extra heals to make your way through the CD of giant to be ready to save again?
and even if so, wouldn't you also run out of those extra heal methods given the long cd on giant not pairing up well with the long cd of such other big heals?

it might just be because i'm inexperienced and a wuss,
but it just seems so incredibly highly risky to me,
like dancing on the edge of death praying for that 1 proc to be reliable enough to save the butt at the exact right moment, every time, while makig its schedule fit with other heal cd's perculiar moods

[Bob]

To the above. On ultimate, unless you are a special glass cannon build that can abuse cd's, then you aren't going to fight certain packs or a nemesis with things off of cd. In those scenarios, there are no whimp attacks. So many things can nearly one shot you on that difficulty, so it makes a lot more sense than on normal/elite.

[zverozvero]

Dont forget that 240 is Giants 'raw'. All % buffs will ramp it and stack with others regens if build specs for regen power. Without increased regeneraion, sure. Just take Dryad on skill that'll give 100% proc on 4 sec cd ;P

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Bob:

To the above. On ultimate, unless you are a special glass cannon build that can abuse cd's, then you aren't going to fight certain packs or a nemesis with things off of cd. In those scenarios, there are no whimp attacks. So many things can nearly one shot you on that difficulty, so it makes a lot more sense than on normal/elite.

yea that's my point tho,
what would one shot you, will one shot despite giants toe because hp gets added after hit damage removes hp, not before or even at the same time (example would be 10k hit, not being modified to a 7k hit because the added hp from giant doesn't occur at the same time but after the initial 10k got removed), so thus if you'd die, you die, despite giant's toe
so only big hits that doesn't kill you, would benefit from giant's toe, but would also have allowed the usage of dryad anyway
and in a fight with nemesis that last several minutes, having giant's to proc, either the same time or right after you pop a heal cd, like pot, = wasted cd

but with dryads blessing, any shot that wouldn't 1 shot you anyway (because regardless of giant or dyad if it 1 shots you you're dead either way), dryad would allow a more consistent uptime of hp, making it easier/better longevity of surviving all those big hits

or am i just missing something completely going on in those 30secs cd time?

[zverozvero]

After shot that allmost killed you standing face into more shots to stack 8%s every 4-5 sec is not for every build. Regen 'll get you up on the move if it still flow.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by zverozvero:

Dont forget that 240 is Giants 'raw'. All % buffs will ramp it and stack with others regens if build specs for regen power. Without increased regeneraion, sure. Just take Dryad on skill that'll give 100% proc on 4 sec cd ;P

okay see that actually makes it begin to be interesting
even if only being more/less 1% raw hp, i wonder how much +hps +%regen regular chars get without/before focusing on regen build, if that on average stuff, makes the hps regen a bigger deal too, or just neglible unless stat focused

[Matthew]

On the point of when or if it procs, I don't disagree on the relevance, however in general I would view either proc as something which simply keeps your health topped off. So when you take the damage spike, it is from 95%+ hp as opposed to already being down at 60% hp or whatever. For the actual spikes, that is when you smash the oh ♥♥♥♥ button like PB, BoD, Mirror, etc.

Normally adcth would fill a similar role, but like I said, for this comparison let's assume it isn't an option.

I also added the bit about the devotions leading up to the procs because by far the biggest con I see for Dryad is the absolute garbage devotions to get it. Even on a low spirit Soldier build, I find it hard to justify giving any sort of value to those devotions. 200 energy, 1 energy/second, 5% spirit. Yuck yuck and more yuck.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by Matthew:

I also added the bit about the devotions leading up to the procs because by far the biggest con I see for Dryad is the absolute garbage devotions to get it. Even on a low spirit Soldier build, I find it hard to justify giving any sort of value to those devotions. 200 energy, 1 energy/second, 5% spirit. Yuck yuck and more yuck.

yea i'd agree, if it wasn't for the resistance i wouldn't have taken it at all either, since seemed like points could overall be spend better elsewhere despite whatever potential value of the proc
the long cd and apparent unreliability of giant just made me disregard it several times even more
(really dislikes "stacking" heals needlesly, effectively wasting cd's, like that)

Originally posted by zverozvero:

Regen 'll get you up on the move if it still flow.

urgh, just annoying there isn't a combined "%heal regen" stat tab, only the flat hps is shown, so any % regen bonuses gotta be added up manually, gah..,
i'm just gonna assume it won't be that big a deal for "regular joe's", unless specifically going for the stat, or having a build that automatically incorporates it a bunch..
too much work to keep manual track of that stuff otherwise lol

[zverozvero]

20% reduced bleed and poison with 33% on buff is most valuable bit of it. Speaking topped akin to adcth it'll be dryad hands down. Even with cd-reds to make less giants cooling and slips in Dryad activation, loosing 1-2 sec on each Dryad 'll make this better.
Giant makes for good part-time breaker. If it procs on or shortly after (cause small taps are coming from everywhere) big slam it'll stabilise nicely and save big red buttons for a time.

Just tried Overguard (+115%) on and off to see base +% for health regen on my poison Witchblade. If divided right (180 without 300 with) 'natural' +% should be ~ 51%. 10% from giant, 18% from corpse dust, 10% from Mark of Mogdrogen. Didnt find rest 13% on skills (of soldier at least) or gear. Lost between stars i guess...
Still single dust is 18% and and seckond dust wont be too bad for health %. Think counting 40% is more or less safe. So giant will leak 350/sec for 10 sec (counting +10 from first star for 250 base)