Not many options nearer end game for an acid caster Sentinel it seems

[OrbPlaytime]

1st off,
yeah my fault for trying to go off the path a bit here and not use Dreeg's Evil Eye, which is a bit meh IMO and use Acid Purge instead.
So more mulling thoughts.

I thought it would be fun to be a Sentinel caster using 4 Guardians of Empyrion, items though at end game is a right challenge as it seems it wants to push you into Dreeg's Evil Eye when it would be more fun going Pox or maybe Sigil.
Pox focuses on melee build with Vileblade/of the Three sets, Sigil has no synergy in such a setup even though it would make sense to have something there for Acid as it exists a bit for fire Sentinal Guardian caster (although Oppressor seems much stronger with items and that is a trend in this concept), leaving you cobbling bits together that can be strong until the really hard content.
Or, give up and go typical Vitality, which ironically still uses some bits associated to Oppressor.
In most of the above I seem to notice Necromancer has a field day of options in comparison for a Guardian of Empyrion caster or when going off the path and doing something different.

So you can kinda make a Sentinal caster just fine when one is converting Vitality to Acid globally and have fun using Acid Purge with some nice items that do not have synergy but eventually you hit a wall if wanting to do say Morgoneth/deeper SR consistently; it can still do the classic reset a Training Dummy under 30secs in Ultimate but has other holes instead due to items/skill/ synergy where in fact I cannot make any set work for it even partially without losing core aspect to what I feel makes an Acid Sentinel/Guardian of Empyrion caster.

So the crux, I do hope in one of the future updates more options are made available in terms of gear flexibility for a Sentinel acid caster beyond fixing Dreeg's Evil Eye that currently is in (for some reason DEE still does not attract me to using it and also other players when looking at the build section for tougher content).
Just feels Sentinel caster should have more acid options IMO beyond retal.

And just to emphasise, like I said it can do all content fine and with good kill times just holes appear when trying to then pull items together that is core to the concept for the tougher content in this context, and yeah I appreciate not all builds should be viable with item support but Acid Sentinel caster beyond DEE should be one it feels like to me.

To put it into perspective Superfluff for acid channel skill went Oppressor, and also then went Acid to Vitality conversion.

[OrbPlaytime]

引用自 gNuff!~©~gNom3™：

when you need 4k+ dmg to make DEE, with a 4node investment, perform slightly on par with most other/avg skills with 2500-3k%dmg, and less investment, definitely means it's "weaker" ;)

Ah I thought he meant Sentinel in general as a class.
Try not to laugh too hard if the new DEE fire set supports Guadians strongly rather than acid after my dream of an Acid guardian caster :)

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

引用自 OrbPlaytime：

引用自 gNuff!~©~gNom3™：

no... comn man.. like... that's the simplest thing, even if you want to test it on homestead dummy...
pox proc rate is only better on pack initialization. On static packs/once pack combat has begun/sigilis are out they can be even. On single target it's the same for 1 sigil, but since you can have a minimum of 2 sigils with 0cdr sigil will proc double.

Well it seems to me its proc is based upon both the tic rate of its damage and tic for spread mechanism (even when has nowhere to spread).
That is well under a second from my experience, and like I said it will proc from dead bodies which Sigil cannot.

this is all true, but doesn't help you on single target fights where pox falls off if the boss doesn't spawn a bunch of minions you can proc pox off from their corpes
that's why i said on pack initialization pox procs better, because it spread
but because they both only tick once a second(dot on pox can't proc), you get the same amount of procs on 1 pox vs 1 sigil, - but since sigil stacks on single target it will then be better
same with the "Once pack combat has begun/sigils are up" since they will then trigger with 1sec intervals like pox(except for corpses ofc - doesn' help much in boss/hard target/single target fights), except again multiple sigils can stack and hit the same group at a rate of 2-3(depending on cdr ofc) which will do more proc ratio
pox is less cast management on groups than sigils, and slightly so on single target, but sigil will alway be a better proccer on single target simply because they stack, and pox needs multi targets to up proc rate - sole benefit then being the potential few seconds of corpse proccing (assuming you don't gib them/have gore off)

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

引用自 OrbPlaytime：

Try not to laugh too hard if the new DEE fire set supports Guadians strongly rather than acid after my dream of an Acid guardian caster :)

ye, that might have been some of the comments in the patch prerelease reveal thread, "why buff fire DEE and not acid"

[OrbPlaytime]

I should emphasise even Pox is not ideal as well in the boss/limit mob situation, so far best for building up Gaze Orbs is Acid Purge.

Edit:
Ah you beat me to posting, Acid Purge is the reference point for both on this char, which is the one that gets closest to 6 orbs spinning.

How many do you see on a single target on your chars gNuff?

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

i get like 3-4 wih no cdr, and on my sentinel with a little cdr it can up to 5 once in a while with max sigil spam on Homestead dummy, but still remains more consistent on the 3-4

i still think twin fangs on acid purge might/should be better, because of better use of cast time/cd lining up, and better/higher sustain returns (specially if you didn't use the chaos conversion offhand)

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Oh man I miss having 8/9 orbs on my Dervish, which would also then act as comet trail when I Vire's Might through enemies.
kinda wished they left it alone as whatever they did fixed that bug or something did in 1.1.7, there it was potent and why I am leery of anything below 6 orbs as I can see the difference between 3/4 to 6 to 8/9.
Maybe it was never meant to reach that high consistently from a balance situation but it made it fun and not too OP, which is what is possibly skewing my perspective of its effectiveness now.

Although when someone like Rektby is also still unsure of it since using it after its upgrade maybe it could do with some more work.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

people using it equally more in "fast" and or glass cannon Cruci runs as well as SR75+, specially where there is conversion, makes me think builders appreciate it more past 1.1.7
but ofc, if you are playing HC, there will always be a slight difference, since most builds, be it "fast" Cruci or high SR, are usually done for SC, and the HC builders/section is a "little" less populated on the english forum

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Well I managed to tweak both builds to keep their core concept while boosting OA/DA to around 2850 without procs/Ascension using the original gear.
Meant removing Chariot on the one you provided and on mine removing Lotus/Lantern.
Both on the limit of energy regen for efficiency but I had the mindset around how much other constant cast skills cost, in reality though do not need either Lantern/Lotus with Acid Purge even if not Arcanist.
Thanks for the suggestion gNuff as would not had thought more laterally, at least now can do some tougher content even if no true synergy gear.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

i think the biggest "hamstring", outside of your mad initial criteria ofc, is you're doin SSF as i understood?/at least probably have a lesser stash than others with more hours, or ofc not using GDstash as the forum builders.
Since that probably limits you a little on top of what's available for your build requiring further tweaks to make sure things fit/don't lack too much of one stat or give up too much of one for another
ex being i've had "completed" builds thrown my way, and "easily" been able to stack ex a ton more OA; but ex at the cost of DA lowering, to potentially an uncomfortable degreee to many/avg players(Incl myself even). Finding 1 stat can be easy, making sure it's not a crap tradeoff is a different matter, specially when you have certain criteria that must be maintained, but ofc also if playing SSF/legit not just using GDstash to cover 2 holes with triple rares
Nery getting "as much" as he did in his version actually kinda amazed me tbh. I can fiddle with devotions more for ex, but it always ends up lowers your phys res for ex

[OrbPlaytime]

Maybe but I feel the biggest challenge is I want to go Acid not Vitality, not necessarily the SSF hamstringing me unless you talk about some incredibly rare items (such as the Shuroth ring), which has not dropped on any of my chars anyway.
It does not help a key item that would be useful is Word of Solael for Sentinel but it is also Vitality, already so much is Vitality based which is a reason IMO it would be nice to support something like this or even DEE as an acid Guardian caster; even Pandemic that is designed for DEE and Guardian of Empyrion is at its core Vitality even if it has an Acid damage % boost.

Key was to get to 2850ish in both OA/DA without procs/Ascension/Resilience, but options are very limited when wanting to do Acid Guardians as covered in the other pages in the topic, while also able to reset the dummy in 30secs or under, which it can.
Like I said before, Oppressor would had been so much easier.
For this build I would allow a little lenience on the items but I trashed the Scion of Bitter Winds I had found on another char (not found the Mythical Blueprint ironically on any of them), nor has any of them found Wretched Tome of Nar'Adin; ironically found multiple other items though that many have difficult getting.

Losing Chariot has not hurt the build tbh, feels stronger with a natural 2850DA, while mine losing the energy regen but gains a little absorption to offset this.

As SSF it started out with Conflagration (leeway used here for the relic) and fire/vitality and converting either way depending upon what used if you wondering how this worked until I could use the right gear; Ideally would be good to replace the Deathgurard Blade (nice for Oppressor if trying this again) with the Scion of Bitter Winds but it is not crippling the build.
Anyway the gear it is using is pretty good just no real synergy, and debatable regarding helm to get the extra Guardian (still it has some synergy with the class) but the item that should be usable is not ala Word of Solael unless I want to go Vitality.

The OP was about restricted options for Acid caster Guardian summoner, current build has pretty good damage just not the item support/flexibility if wanting the Guardians to be Acid.
Another Irony is maybe the new fire option will support Guardians of Empyrion in terms of synergy, but then again not acid.
Anyway sure there is the Dark One partial set (again) as a crutch here, which I can farm now with the new stats/setup.

[OrbPlaytime]

Well switching this to Acid caster Dervish using same core items (Deathguard related,belt,couple of others) was able to defeat Ultimate Mogdrogen and Ravager of Minds with Acid Purge, which I really do not think would be possible in a sensible kill time frame as a caster Sentinel without going Retal caster.
Both builds had the same concept of maxing out 4 Empyrion Guardians while using Acid Purge.

As I mentioned in a different thread, IMO it is ironic Dervish makes a superior Acid caster than Sentinel with it being easier to have stronger OA/DA/armor/phys resist/casting speed/etc.
Defeating both Mog and Ravager on Ultimate with the caster Dervish Acid Purge where I kinda struggled with a good kill time on Elite with the Sentinel caster Acid Purge just for Mogdrogen and would not try Ravager even on Elite with that build helps to conclude this IMO, from my perspective anyway.

Strangely Mogdrogen was harder than Ravager of Minds for the caster Dervish on Ultimate with more hit and run than fighting Ravager, but I guess that is because I did not adjust items to get Lightning resist to say 86-90+high overcap rather than the 80+high overcap I used.

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引用自 wespe___o=/:*：

Aye, as you found out Sentinel has trouble using the synergies that seem to be there
In fact, 2 builds are godlike (RET+Vit)..RET-Hybrid Caster is solid.. all others are sh*t
What annoys me most:
RET Acid > RET Poison
Vit > all
Sadly, this just becomes clear after you invest a lot of time and experiment with available Gear.. :cozycastondeath:
At least I came to value Poison WitchHunter and enjoy Vitality builds even more.. just sad the Sentinel I wanted to play had to be tweaked to get him solid with Poison (Ret-Hybrid).. and that´s far from outstanding

Yeah agree.
Shame it makes Sentinel more one dimensional than other Oathkeeper mastery combinations, even if one tries to use a support skill item such as Acid Purge/Biting Blades that are superior on a different Oathkeeper combination caster in all ways.
You can get it to work on Sentinel but it feels like a fudge (as you point out in the 1st sentence) compared to other synergy acid casters that do not use Occultist with Oathkeeper, and Sentinel definitely is weaker as an acid caster than at least one of the other combinations that is usually melee orientated.

That said for some reason I found the Acid Purge build boring even with tactical use of Shadow Strike to get in close to puke on them lol; I guess jump in puke till enemy dead and repeat did not feel as satisfying as I thought it would even as Dervish that has the fun of jumping into position.
Maybe it is the mechanism/visuals-effect/playstyle.

And this coming from a Conj pet summoner player lol.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

you're gonna love this "acid" Sentinel Orb ;) https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/1-1-8-1-physical-caster-sentinel-crucible-5-05-sr-100-ravager-1-30-crate/106399
but hey, at least it has +1 to EmpyBros

[OrbPlaytime]

引用自 gNuff!~©~gNom3™：

you're gonna love this "acid" Sentinel Orb ;) https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/1-1-8-1-physical-caster-sentinel-crucible-5-05-sr-100-ravager-1-30-crate/106399
but hey, at least it has +1 to EmpyBros :lunar2019laughingpig:

Yeah made me laugh :)
Highlights nicely the insane strength of converting to Physical.
My new project again going the hard way where easiest would be convert to physical.

But I am glad he went all out dmg 4 Summons though, still a caster as far as I am concerned :)
Some serious skill to pilot that char so deep in SR even with the strength of the conversion.