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i'll just add that Presence of Virtue does in fact trigger with Hevill's greatsword, and i'm curious as to why you think it didn't/doesn't? - it's flat damage; all it's contingent off is weapon attack/skills that use %WD to trigger and ofc regardless of what dmg type, like all types of flat dmg
^and i just tested this because i thought it was so weird a notion, and obviously it triggered off Hevill, there were 2 very easy indicators of it, 1 being dot ticks being present in form of numbers popping up continuously after stopped hitting, 2 being the animation for bleed or trauma dmg respectively occuring on the target (bleed is particularly easy to spot lol)
What is "RR"? I'm kinda new to stats in this game XD
And what does that mean when I hit an enemy with a sword or a sword-skill? That it will deal *either* internal trauma or bleed, that it will stack both one after another or that they will switch places after every hit... ?
Well, I was walking up to enemies, hitting them with the fire on-hit-skill from Lv1 for Oathkeepers. It did the tiny burning ticks(maybe 2-3) with the aura. When switching to a physical sword, the ticks became 23-25 or so. The damage values of the swords themselves were roughly the same too.
this is regardles of what "style" of weapon you have, in Grim Dawn your weapon is either just a means of delivering certain attacks/dmg - or possibly even just a pure stat booster ex for casters using cast attacks.
In grim dawn you then have the concept of "flat dmg", this is straight up dmg values added to your attacks, ex a sword or helemt with +14fire dmg (no % sign) - flat dmg then only applies to weapon attacks, ex auto attacks/Righteous Fervor, or skills using %weapon damage ex Eye of Reckoning, either way - this again is regardless of weapon type or dmg type, flat dmg is only ever applied to weapon attacks/skills with %WD(weapon damage), and you will apply any flat dgm regardless what dmg type your weapon is what you dmg type you are using (ie you can apply flat poison dmg to Righeous Fervor attacks even tho it's a Phys/Fire attack)
DoTs are more complicated in mechanic, but it's still a type of flat dmg and only get applied to weapon attacks/skills with %WD - i'd suggest you wait to looking further into DoT mechanics for if when you actually make a DoT build
^for now suffice it to say that Presence of Virtue trauma/bleed dmg "combine" if you attack fast enough/get enough triggers - and it will merge with your burn dmg from Righteous Fervor
not sure how to explain this since i don't know what was going on with your character - but it's very easy for you to be killing non boss mobs before the DoT would actually have set proper in
^it's very easy for you to test this like i did, strip your character naked (to remove potential alternative sources of dmg), equip Hevell's sword, activate presence of virtue, now go whack away at the training dummy in devils crossing(it doesn't die) - you will clearly be able to see the trauma animation (red-orangy "mist" that shines from the center) and the bleed animation(blood drops gushing out on the floor) - if you then activate Righteous Fervor you will then muddle the animations furhter with a bright orange burn animation (you can still be able to distinguish the trauma animation while all this goes on if you look careful enough) - and you will notice the dmg values increase as this goes on until they potentially "max out" for what your characters is capable for with DoTdmg for now
Ok, GD has lost of complex mechanics, let's try to explain some :
- there are two types of attacks, ones that have a Weapon Damage component, and ones without Weapon Damage.
By default, auto-attacks are dealing...your Weapon's damage. 100% of it to be exact.
Furthermore, some skills deal some fixed damage (also called flat damage). This damage does not change with your weapon. For example, Judgement deals flat damage. The only way to increase the damage it deals is to invest more skill points into it. But it will deal the same damage wether you've got a 1-hand or a 2-hand weapon equipped.
Then you have skills that have a Weapon Damage component, generally alongside some flat damage. Righteous Fervor for example. And since it has a Weapon Damage component, it will deal more damage if you use a 2-handed weapon than a 1-handed weapon. In general, investing more skill points into such a skill will increase both the flat damage and the Weapon Damage components of the attack, but also just upgrading your weapon will increase the damage of such skills.
Now, on top of that, there are effects that can be added to your attacks, can be from auras, devotions, etc, etc...In general, such effects are only added to skills with a Weapon Damage component.
So Presence of Virtue can proc of Righteous Fervor, but NOT from Judgement.
Also, important to note, weapons have a type of damage tied to them. At the beginning, it's mostly Physical (it's marked in grey just under the weapon type, for example :
"65-106 Physical damage", in grey. under it is Armor Piercing, which is basically the amount that ignore Armor.
But later, some weapons will have an innate element, like Vitality, or Aether. The Weapon Damage component of the Damage is always from the same damage type as the weapon is.
Let's go back to Righteous Fervor. If you're wielding a weapon wich has "65-106 Physical damage" in grey, it will deal, at skill level 1 and at first level of charge :
- 130% Weapon Damage (100% base + 30% from first level of charge), so (65-106) Physical damage
- 6 flat Physical damage
- 12 Burn damage over 3 seconds
Then it will check if auras are adding some flat damage or other effect. So Presence of Virtue will roll for the 50/50 between Internal Trauma and Bleeding.
It'll then check if there is Physical damage, then add 8% Physical damage, and check if there is Fire damage, and add 8% Fire damage.
So in total, it'll deal :
- between 91,26 and 148,824 Physical damage. Rounding to the inferior I believe, so let's say 91 to 148 Physical damage
- 6,48 Physical damage from flat, rounded to 6 Physical
=> for a total from 97 to 154 Physical damage
- 12 Burn damage over 3 seconds (% Fire damage doesn't count for Burn, you need the Dot part to be buffed seperatly)
- then a 50/50 between 25 Internal Trauma over 5 seconds or 15 Bleeding over 3 seconds
On the other hand, with the same weapon, at level 1 in skill, Judgment will deal :
- 34 Physical damage
- 32 Internal damage over 2 seconds
- a Knockdown and a taunt since they're part of the skill description, and not effects from other sources
- but no 50/50 from Presence of Virtue
RR means Resistance Reduction. Monsters, like the character, have resistances to the different damage types. Meaning it's super important to get your Resistance high in order to take less damage. On the other side, if you can inflict Resist Reduction to a monster, it'll take that much damage. That's why it's generally recommanded to focus on 1 damage type in your build, because it'll be easier to stack different Resistance Reduction effects for the same Resistance. not something that will come up immediatly, it's not that important in the beginning, but keep an eye out for Resistance Reduction effects, they're perhaps the most powerful debuff you can inflict to ennemies.
That... is not what's happening. If i hit the dummy with Righeous Fervor, the first hit only deals 9 damage, instead of 20-40 it deals with normal hits. After 6 stacks it deals about 35-50 Which looks more like 30% than 130%. Unless I'm missing something.
Ok, yeah, I must have seen the numbers wrong or a mini-bug. It works properly on the dummy.
myhr2 is however wrong about the "bonus dmg"/how the charges function and you are correct in that - it starts lower then gradually builds as you get more charges
^what Righteous Fervor shows/the stats the skills list, is applied at 100% charge, so at charge 1(30%) you are dealing 1/3 of what the skill lists, then at charge 6 when reaching 100% you deal the full amount the skill shows - this then increases later to ex 8 charges and a 115% bonus, meaning you will still reach "skill listed effeciency" at charge 6, but at charge 8 you then get a bonus 15% (you have to calculate yourself/rely on sheet values in character page)
glad that got sorted out at least
Aight, I think I've got it now. Basically just needs leveling to properly shine then. Thanks for the help, the game is pretty fun so far. It's really welcome when skills just work with each other without unnecessary levels of bs.
- and the forum is always there to ask questions that may arrive later down the road anyway
happy trails
Hehe, thanks. One thing tho - there is a lot of stuff in Devotion that has "15% Chance on Attack" or "100% Chance on Critical Attack". Like, *a lot* of the constellations. Am I meant to use like 5 different skills at the same time somehow? XD
Like, for Cleansing Waters I get it - you put it on something like a shield-skill that you then effectively improve with a cleansing effect...but many of the damaging ones seem to be a "wasted" point, if you put it on some 4-10 second skill, when it only has a 15% chance to proc in the first place.
firstly, a devotion skill/proc doesn't have to be attached to seemingly related skill, ie cleansing ofc doesn't have to be attached to a shield skill to be useful.
What is important is the proc chance, effect/desired outcome and the cooldown. General rule being the higher the proc chance the longer the CD and vice versa ofc, low cd procs have generally low chance of activation - this is also combined with the activation skill's coodldown, ie your autoattack/Righteous Fervor is a no cooldown skill, so it doesn't increase the proc chance, a slow cooldown skill like Judgment would boost the base % proc chance of a devotion.
^with that in mind we notice Cleansing Waters already have a high base cooldown - and a 100% chance to attack, meaning one might as well attach it to a long cooldown skill to "match"/so lower cooldown devotions could be attached to better fitting skills. ex it being a total waste to have cleansing waters on Righteous Fervor - and then ofc depending on how many skills you have avail/the shield skill cooldown you might want to reconsider replacing it with something with a bigger cooldown so that shield skill could be attached to a lower cooldown devotion <-- only begins to apply once you start to have multiple devotions/run out of skills to attach them too ofc ;)
now regarding the low proc chance devotions, as mentioned above, most low proc chance devotions also have a low cooldown, this then means they can easily be attached to "spamable" skills, ex such as Righteous Fervor, to maximize output of potential proc chance. The other option, often applies to ex tier 2 devotions, is to attach a semi low cooldown devotion, to a skill matching somewhat closely in cooldown, ie a 2sec cooldown you might want to attach to a 2,5sec cooldown attack skill, what happens then is because of the "slower than instant" attack of the skill it will increase the base proc chance of the devotion, depending on the cooldown of the skill. Ex being you have a 30% base proc chance 3sec cd devotion - you attach it to a 6second skill(ex Judgment) - the proc chance of devotion is now 100%
^devotions proc chance can then be "manipulated" to try and suit as best as possible, either matching cd skills, slower cd skills for higher %chance like if already long cd devotion or something that desires to be timed more manually ex dryad/cleansing waters, or to apply as frequently as possible again ex with low cd + low proc chance devotions on spamable attacks/no cd AoE skills to try maximize output of procs
hope it helps and didn't confuse you more lol
Thanks for correcting me on that.
@ Hex: Onii-Chan :
It's like gNuff!~©~gNom3 has said, the longer the CD of an active skill, the higher the proc chance of a devotion node will be adjusted (it can't exceed 100% though).
Also important is the fact that active skills have different behaviors regarding devotion procs. Most can proc with effects when they have ongoing damage. For exemple, Judgment has flat Physical damage and 2 ticks of Internal Trauma (DoT tick every second). Which means it's a high CD skill that has three proc occasions. And if you take Hearth of Wrath, it adds three other proc occasions, the initial Fire damage, and two ticks of Burn.
So on skill activation, you get two proc chances, then two others after one second, two others after two seconds, and you're left with only three seconds with no proc chance. And that is only for one ennemy, since it's an AoE.
So there are two "good" types of skills for devotion procs. The ones you spam, low proc chance, but since you spam them, proc chance is overall high. And the ones with long CD and multiple damage sources over time. That's how you can use several devotion procs. Part of making a build work is finding the best way to assign your devotion procs to the skills at your disposal, and sometimes it's useful to just take a couple a points in a skill, not for its damage, but for its proc potential. Judgment with Hearth of Wrath (so two points) and Vire's Might with Volcanic Stride and Tectonic shift (three points) are both excellent for devotion procs, whereas War Cry in Soldier is terrible for procs, because it may have a high CD, it has only one proc occasion with the initial effect, which is pretty bad. Be careful and make some tests, though, because sometimes, skills are beahving differently frim what you would think. Word of Pain in Inquisitor is excellent for Devotion proccing for exemple, because while it has no CD, the flat damage sources are applied each seconds for the duration stated, so with Word of Agony and Death Sentence, you have 4 proc occasion on each tick, one for each damage type (Elemental is its own damage type).
alrighty, what is a "true DoT" then and how do we distinguish it from "pseudo DoTs", it's simpler than it might first appear, anything the damage type of Damage over Time only, ie Bleed, Trauma, Burn, Frostburn, Electrocute, Poison and Vitality Decay are true dots - non of these effects can trigger procs or devotions when they tick beyond the initial hit
Pseudo DoTs are DoTs that do "flat" dmg but at regular intervals/"recurring effects", ie the primary straight dmg types, Fire, Physical, Vitality etc etc (not gonna name all 8 lol), on skills that have continuous application of that skill's dmg, examples would be Word of Pain, Blackwater Cocktail, the Heart of Wrath part of Judgment ticks flat fire dmg, occultist Bloody Pox ticks direct vitality dmg etc etc - the skill will have a duration timer mention "up top", that then applies to the dmg below in "dot intervals", aside for any potential dot timer mention (true dots always have their own timer mention).
Suppose you could think of pseudo dots as "self-refreshing"skills applying dmg/"starting over" at each tick from the application for the duration listed up top the skill. Where as true dots tick don't refresh themselves they just run out their own timer (true dots are little more complicated than that, but nothing need to worry about for now/wait to look up until you're making an actual dot build)