Ever heard of the KISS principle?

[Thorbalt]

You have too damn many stats in the game. You guys seriously need to either tone it down to make it so loot is only for the classes you run, because 98% of what drops otherwise is completely worthless trash.

[Rack]

I would also prefer getting drops that would benefit my Masteries

[Enfild]

Loot filter, people.

[Rikkore]

nah there's barely any endgame in GrimDawn. the one thing you do at 100 is to grind for gear to perfect your build or to gear up another character.

and as said there's a loot filter in game to only show gear you desire

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

if you didn't get items you couldn't use you wouldn't have anything to sell, duh - then what are the vendors gonna do ? putting poor people out of business pff

[Azunai]

the appeal of this game is its depth.

there are other ARPGs that are... let's say "streamlined" to the point of having only 2 or 3 relevant stats or so.

if you find the stats in grim dawn too complicated, maybe you would enjoy other games more.

[OrbPlaytime]

Well that is the beauty of Factions when the RNG loot gives you a hard time for your character, the faction quartermasters have some seriously good items and when you also own Ashes of Malmouth covers a very broad spectrum of builds.
Downside is trying to reach Revered with both Malmouth resistance and Barrowholm quickly, 2nd char it is easier if one wants to use a Mandate on the next char.
Anyway Faction gear is more along the lines of KISS that you mention.

Could also say it makes the stored/shared item stash more interesting in regard to costs to expand (again relates to Ashes of Malmouth).

Even playing found only characters there are enough specific Monster Infrequent drops from mobs/bosses along with the added random bonuses they gain to make up for a lot of the random stuff.

Downside in the diverse loot stat drops is just gaining enough game understanding to be able to sell quickly the random items when skimming what they are, does seem to take a fair bit of time as a new player but after awhile you do become faster at selling/keeping items.

[powbam]

Originally posted by Thorbalt:

because 98% of what drops otherwise is completely worthless trash.

I am still waiting to see the diablo-like where this isn't true. I keep seeing people making this bullsh** statement while completely ignoring the fact that every diablo-like, every rogue-like, ever made - the majority of the loot is "garbage".

You people that say stuff like this.. have you just never played a diablo-like before or do you just like saying asinine things and coming across as if you don't know what you are talking about?

[Zantai]

While I've acknowledged many times that the game has ended up with too many damage types and that's something we'd want to address if we do a sequel, I often find myself wondering about the 98% argument for trash loot.

Let's say, hypothetically, that we achieve some mythical ability to make most loot not "trash", which to me would imply that the loot is an upgrade. Maybe I'm wrong in this interpretation of what "non-trash" loot is.

Seems like either you'd be getting upgrades so tiny every 5 seconds that they feel inconsequential (and exhausting), or you'd be getting a loot drop every half an hour, which sounds equally underwhelming and dissatisfying.

So by virtue of the ARPG genre being a loot pinata, it seems like the 98% problem is just, well, part of the experience. We added a loot filter for a reason so your brain doesn't have to parse every single item that appears and most loot drops don't have a significant sell value so hoarding all of it to haul to the vendor is excessive.

Perhaps others may disagree with me on this, but that is my take on this "issue".


The concept of smart loot is also incredibly difficult to define in a game like Grim Dawn, where the flexibility in building characters means you may want damage types that are not typical to the masteries you've selected.

Filtering by "class" seems rather limited as not all gear even has class skill bonuses to begin with, so how would that even work? Not to mention that I find smart loot frustrating when I'm playing on my main character and trying to get loot for my alts.

[Childe Roland]

Originally posted by Zantai:

The concept of smart loot is also incredibly difficult to define in a game like Grim Dawn, where the flexibility in building characters means you may want damage types that are not typical to the masteries you've selected.

Filtering by "class" seems rather limited as not all gear even has class skill bonuses to begin with, so how would that even work? Not to mention that I find smart loot frustrating when I'm playing on my main character and trying to get loot for my alts.

Since you brought it up, what about an optional setting that didn't affect loot without skill/mastery boosts but made it so that loot that did have skill or mastery bonuses would only drop if you had a mastery in common with the item. E.G. if you had a Warlord you would see loot that boosted Soldier or Oathkeeper skills, even if it boosted skills for other masteries as well, but you wouldn't see loot that boosted say, just Nightblade or Occultist and Shaman; and items and affixes that didn't affect any skills or masteries directly would drop for everyone.

Obviously this would require some kind of marker/flag that could be checked and would probably have to wait for another game.

[powbam]

Originally posted by Childe Roland:

Originally posted by Zantai:

The concept of smart loot is also incredibly difficult to define in a game like Grim Dawn, where the flexibility in building characters means you may want damage types that are not typical to the masteries you've selected.

Filtering by "class" seems rather limited as not all gear even has class skill bonuses to begin with, so how would that even work? Not to mention that I find smart loot frustrating when I'm playing on my main character and trying to get loot for my alts.

Since you brought it up, what about an optional setting that didn't affect loot without skill/mastery boosts but made it so that loot that did have skill or mastery bonuses would only drop if you had a mastery in common with the item. E.G. if you had a Warlord you would see loot that boosted Soldier or Oathkeeper skills, even if it boosted skills for other masteries as well, but you wouldn't see loot that boosted say, just Nightblade or Occultist and Shaman; and items and affixes that didn't affect any skills or masteries directly would drop for everyone.

Obviously this would require some kind of marker/flag that could be checked and would probably have to wait for another game.

So you want the setting that's already in the game?
https://i.imgur.com/iQC5FFs.png

From what I can tell you could pretty much already set it to show pretty close to that concept anyway. At the most they could probably add in an extra filter option to bring it closer in line to that, maybe.

Frankly, the downside - at least as far as during leveling goes - is that your going to miss upgrades irregardless of the fact that they might be for other masteries. I could only see it being a useful setting at the extreme end of endgame.

[Childe Roland]

Originally posted by powbam:

So you want the setting that's already in the game?
https://i.imgur.com/iQC5FFs.png

No, an actual "smart-loot" setting. So that instead of only showing stuff for your mastery it would have the same amount of loot but it would either support one of your masteries or have no direct link to any mastery, just general stats.

Like if the filter didn't just reduce the amount of loot you saw, but instead changed the type of loot that was dropped in the first place.

Although, if they can already filter like that, then it might be possible to implement it in a future patch if they felt like. And in my defense, I haven't paid attention to any part of the filter settings other than the far left-hand column (by rarity) since, oh, I first started using it .

Edit: I'm not really interested in this myself, but it occurred to me that it might be a way to implement a type of "smart-loot" for people who apparently just can't deal with it otherwise.

[powbam]

Originally posted by Childe Roland:

Originally posted by powbam:

So you want the setting that's already in the game?
https://i.imgur.com/iQC5FFs.png

No, an actual "smart-loot" setting. So that instead of only showing stuff for your mastery it would have the same amount of loot but it would either support one of your masteries or have no direct link to any mastery, just general stats.

I guess to that I would say... good luck? Considering that Zantai hates smart loot I don't know if you have enough money to bribe him to care enough to put a programmer to work to do that.. but it isn't even about whether he disdains the concept or not - it goes deeper than that

https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/smart-loot-setting-for-gd-maybe-gd2/45686/22

As for the OP, smart loot is something we had discussed internally in the past, but by that point the loot tables were heavily ingrained within the game.

To incorporate such a system now would not only take major revisions to how loot is distributed on the code end, but we would also have to rip out all the existing loot tables and effectively start over. Such a system would also necessitate some way of marking items as ideal for a particular class or combination, which would mean we would have to review every item in the game (there’s a LOT of items now! :eek:). Yes, some of this could be automated, but there would be exceptions we would have to consider so that smart loot does not invalidate clever/unusual build ideas.

It would certainly have to be different from how say Diablo 3 does it as our itemization is not as simple as Strength is for Barbarians and Barbarian set is for Barbarians.

tl;dr A smart loot system would have to be something we’d have to incorporate from the very beginning in a multi-class game like Grim Dawn, especially if we want to maintain the integrity of creating unusual builds that don’t fit the typical mold of every class.

Ultimately tho it comes down to medierra - whom any such drastic changes would first have to receive the OK directly from the top dog. I'm guessing he was certainly a part of those internal discussions, where it was decided that it simply wasn't going to be an option.

Plus the idea of smart loot leaves a sour taste in RNGesus' mouth - and as the Pope of the Church of RNGesus I simply cannot abide this form of blasphemy.

Repent ye sinners!
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/welcome-to-the-grim-dawn-church-of-rngesus/29149

[OrbPlaytime]

Originally posted by Childe Roland:

Originally posted by powbam:

So you want the setting that's already in the game?
https://i.imgur.com/iQC5FFs.png

No, an actual "smart-loot" setting. So that instead of only showing stuff for your mastery it would have the same amount of loot but it would either support one of your masteries or have no direct link to any mastery, just general stats.

Like if the filter didn't just reduce the amount of loot you saw, but instead changed the type of loot that was dropped in the first place.

Although, if they can already filter like that, then it might be possible to implement it in a future patch if they felt like. And in my defense, I haven't paid attention to any part of the filter settings other than the far left-hand column (by rarity) since, oh, I first started using it .

Edit: I'm not really interested in this myself, but it occurred to me that it might be a way to implement a type of "smart-loot" for people who apparently just can't deal with it otherwise.

I guess the argument against this is those who use one char to do some farming for weaker but fun characters they intend to play.
Or while playing coming across items that make a player go ooh but for a different build, and gives them an incentive to do said builds.
My current playthrough ironically the RNG is trying to tell me to play an Aegis shield char combined with say one of the Seal components and a few other nice and strong loot drops having synergy for such a build.
Maybe not end-game build material but sure looks like fun.
Shame I tend to play found gear until very end-game lol, but it opens ideas.

[Childe Roland]

Originally posted by OrbPlaytime:

I guess the argument against this is those who use one char to do some farming for weaker but fun characters they intend to play.
Or while playing coming across items that make a player go ooh but for a different build, and gives them an incentive to do said builds.
My current playthrough ironically the RNG is trying to tell me to play an Aegis shield char combined with say one of the Seal components and a few other nice and strong loot drops having synergy for such a build.
Maybe not end-game build material but sure looks like fun.
Shame I tend to play found gear until very end-game lol, but it opens ideas.

Well, that's why I said "optional". So the people who want it can turn it on, and the rest of us can leave it off.

[powbam]

Originally posted by Childe Roland:

Originally posted by OrbPlaytime:

I guess the argument against this is those who use one char to do some farming for weaker but fun characters they intend to play.
Or while playing coming across items that make a player go ooh but for a different build, and gives them an incentive to do said builds.
My current playthrough ironically the RNG is trying to tell me to play an Aegis shield char combined with say one of the Seal components and a few other nice and strong loot drops having synergy for such a build.
Maybe not end-game build material but sure looks like fun.
Shame I tend to play found gear until very end-game lol, but it opens ideas.

Well, that's why I said "optional". So the people who want it can turn it on, and the rest of us can leave it off.

Well, as you can see in my above Zantai quote "optional" isn't an option - as it would require a butt ton of work for what some people imagine is only a simple option - but apparently it is far from a simple addition. Having to gut the entire loot system and redo it - and worse, have to review most the items in the GD database to accommodate it - just for an option? Mmmm. /scrunchyface