Endgame OA numbers?

[Alien3moji]

I'm wondering how much OA do I need in ultimate for me to be able to still crit bosses. Usually I would just aim for the highest ammount possible because I love being able to crit and doing the most damage.

But I'm playing a retaliation tank warlord atm and as you could probably imagine OA isn't her greatest focus. However there is some sources to get above 2000, with better gear perhaps even around 2500 levels for the endgame, but I doubt that I'll be able to get around 3000 without sacrificing to much in defensive/retaliation aspects, which are naturally the main focus of the build.

Why do I still need OA? Well I'm basically trying to min-max my build the best as usual, and at first I thought that picking assasin's mark devotion wouldn't work at all with this build. However I've changed my mind recently, I believe I've just found a very balanced devotion path which also includes this RR constellation.

I'm currently in malmouth on elite at level 90 (yea a bit overleveled). Perhaps it is worth mentioning that I'm also playing on hardcore. Right now my OA is around 2200 and above with buffs and debuffs (ascention, judgement). The second node of judgement is crucial because of DA debuff and I love it.

I'm planning to possibly go after the superbosses with this build when finalized, right now going butter smooth and my health rarely dropping at all.

I'd love to include assasin's mark for as much phys RR as possible, but if I won't be able to crit bosses/nemesis/superbosses in ultimate, then it would probably be a better idea to drop it and go with my previous devotion route. I mean there's minimal changes, I've only dropped like a couple of flat phys retal nodes and such.

Thanks in advance!

I'm also using seal of annihilation, which procs ability on crit only.

Sorry here's a link to my build as it is currently. I noticed that the values in OA/DA compartment are incorrect, I have slightly more of both. Along with resistances, every resistance is at least soft-capped currently. I also have way higher number of retaliation dmg, shield block chance etc. It seems grim tools has problems or something, most values are incorrect (to low).

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E4Ke3N

[powbam]

Originally posted by Alien3moji:

Sorry here's a link to my build as it is currently. I noticed that the values in OA/DA compartment are incorrect, I have slightly more of both. Along with resistances, every resistance is at least soft-capped currently. I also have way higher number of retaliation dmg, shield block chance etc. It seems grim tools has problems or something, most values are incorrect (to low).

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E4Ke3N

I have no idea in what way OA interacts with retaliation builds but as for OA amounts in general the common consensus seems to be 2800+ (alot of endgame builds end up 3000+).

If you are more technically minded this guide here:
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/malawiglenn-s-guide-on-game-mechanics-for-beginners/84347
..has sections covering both retal and OA (separately).

GrimTools values will be incorrect because it doesn't read your items directly (it's actually reading values directly from current game files and parsing them depending on your settings in GT). It reads the averages because alot of item values have a range that they can roll/drop within.

You can configure what you see in GrimTools like so:
https://i.imgur.com/gxNaLCB.png

*The same option is available to tweak in the buildcalc section as well.

I am not entirely sure it is possible for GrimTools to directly read your item drops (you are wearing) exact values because even GD Stash has this limitation as well. I would say that the fact that they both behave the same in this regard is an indication that something might be preventing them from doing so.

From Grim Tools forum page:
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/grimtools-build-calculator/38040

Yes, the values you see in game and in grimtools do differ, because by default grimtools shows average values (you can switch to min/max in options), and there’s no way to show exact values that you see in the game.

[Alien3moji]

Originally posted by powbam:

Originally posted by Alien3moji:

Sorry here's a link to my build as it is currently. I noticed that the values in OA/DA compartment are incorrect, I have slightly more of both. Along with resistances, every resistance is at least soft-capped currently. I also have way higher number of retaliation dmg, shield block chance etc. It seems grim tools has problems or something, most values are incorrect (to low).

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E4Ke3N

I have no idea in what way OA interacts with retaliation builds but as for OA amounts in general the common consensus seems to be 2800+ (alot of endgame builds end up 3000+).

GrimTools values will be incorrect because it doesn't read your items directly (it's actually reading values directly from current game files and parsing them depending on your settings in GT). It reads the averages because alot of item values have a range that they can roll/drop within.

You can configure what you see in GrimTools like so:
https://i.imgur.com/gxNaLCB.png

*The same option is available to tweak in the buildcalc section as well.

I am not entirely sure it is possible for GrimTools to directly read your item drops (you are wearing) exact values because even GD Stash has this limitation as well. I would say that the fact that they both behave the same in this regard is an indication that something might be preventing them from doing so.

From Grim Tools forum page:
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/grimtools-build-calculator/38040

Yes, the values you see in game and in grimtools do differ, because by default grimtools shows average values (you can switch to min/max in options), and there’s no way to show exact values that you see in the game.

Thanks! Yes as I have feared, well I'm not playing a pure retaliation build as they were back in the day obviously. The current retaliation to attack means that you need to have some OA if you want to be able to achieve some decent clearspeeds. As I mentioned earlier, my goal is to include assasin's mark (in devotion) for added -% phys resistance, which only procs on critical attack. Therefore I really wish to be able to crit consisistenly. As I said, not because of damage, but because of certain procs only. I think that 2800 OA will be very hard to achieve with this build without making significant sacrifices in retaliation values/defense areas.

But I'll continue to use assasin's mark for now since I can pretty reliably crit in elite with my OA currently around 2200 mark and higher with debuffs to monsters.

[powbam]

YW.. if you want you can reference other retaliation Warlord builds people have made to see how they are ending up.

https://forums.crateentertainment.com/tags/warlord
The above shows all builds tagged as Warlord so not every build in the list will be a retal build.

However, I did take a quick peek at Maya's try at a retal Warlord:
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/drunken-fwuffy-retaliation-warlord/83654
..and the builds OA value is actually pretty close to your own.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YNn66rGN

[Fendelphi]

If you have ways to remove enemy DA that helps a lot, because the formular means that removing DA is more efficient that boosting your own OA by a similar amount.

For instance, going from 2200 to 2450 OA(against 2200 DA) will increase your hit chance from roughly 90% to 96%, while 2200 OA against 1950 DA(reduce enemy DA by 250) will increase your hit chance from 90% to 98%.

A very rough estimate would then say that reducing DA is about 30% more efficient, than increasing your own OA by a similar amount.
This should transfer to crits as well.


Edit:
Also, if you can get abilities that reduce enemy resistance of the damage type you focus on, it will be a huge boost as well.
As most of your damage appear to be physical, War Cry with Break Morale could further boost your damage potential(also has the benefit of reducing incoming damage slightly).
(And if you dont intend to use it for Multiplayer, drop Field Command and go for Fighting Spirit. It gives you much more kick for the skill point investment)

[Alien3moji]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

If you have ways to remove enemy DA that helps a lot, because the formular means that removing DA is more efficient that boosting your own OA by a similar amount.

For instance, going from 2200 to 2450 OA(against 2200 DA) will increase your hit chance from roughly 90% to 96%, while 2200 OA against 1950 DA(reduce enemy DA by 250) will increase your hit chance from 90% to 98%.

A very rough estimate would then say that reducing DA is about 30% more efficient, than increasing your own OA by a similar amount.
This should transfer to crits as well.


Edit:
Also, if you can get abilities that reduce enemy resistance of the damage type you focus on, it will be a huge boost as well.
As most of your damage appear to be physical, War Cry with Break Morale could further boost your damage potential(also has the benefit of reducing incoming damage slightly).
(And if you dont intend to use it for Multiplayer, drop Field Command and go for Fighting Spirit. It gives you much more kick for the skill point investment)

Thanks for that max fighting spirit idea, otherwise yea I get the image. I won't be going for War Cry for similar reasons, I already use shattering smash for RR (along with Celestial Presence/Assasin's Mark). And for dmg reduction I plan to use some legendary shoulder armor (forgot the name) when I finally find it. That way I'm hopefully gonna be able to conserve quite some skill points since war cry with break morale is a huge skill point sink.

Otherwise, thanks both for ideas. Maya's build looks great and I'm using it for template, however he didn't go for assasin's mark and further reducing enemies resists with crushing verdict/assasin's mark combo). I'm planning to make a more offensive oriented version of his build and hopefully it turns out great.

Thx for suggestions

Edit: Went for temporary boost with fighting spirit and clarity of purpose and it's going great. I can already reach (over) 2800 with buffs up pretty consistently even though my gear is very far from endgame right now (still in FG elite). I'm confident that the build will pan up pretty great. Posting back when finalized.

[chris]

I have 2 questions regarding defense in this game. Can someone help me?

1. Has "Physical resist" any effect to a normal physical hit? Or has it only effect to internal trauma?
It´s not clear for me (Description: "Resistance to spells and effects which cause physical harm and internal trauma".) Another post yesterday showed the formula for a physical hit and there is no "Physical resist" involved. Only DA and Armor Absorption I think.
2. In the posts above is written that "Assassin´s Mark" reduce the enemy´s defense (Description: "- x% physical resistence). Reduce this only "physical resist" or DA too?
This question has little context to question 1.

I have long played that game but love to find out new things after that time about it. :-)

[kekkuli]

Physical resist covers all physical damage including ranged, spells, trauma, melee hits. Physical resist reduction only reduces physical resistance. This game is very literal with it's descriptions.

Defensive ability allows you to avoid most attacks btw, not just physical. That's why it's so important. Some ground effects are an exception.

[chris]

Thx kekkuli for your answer. Now physical resist is clear for me.
My blademaster will be more happy with my decisions in the future with that knowledge. :-)