How does Twin Fang & Ghoulish Hunger work for Spellbinder DE build?

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Hey Steam Fam,

I'm geeked about the new launch of Grim Dawn expansion and wanted to try something new. I'm working on a Spellbinder (Necro/Arcan). For Devotions planning on Drain Essence + Self heals + Dying God + Will of Rattosh + Gaint Blood + Wayward Soul.

Could someone explain if Twin Fang will work for Drain Essense?

Also, how will Ghoulish Hunger work in the build attached to say, Arcane Will, Flash Freeze or Ill Omen?

If you'd like to see me leveling up, I stream at www.twitch.tv/Gokurogami

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Publicado originalmente por RhodosGuard:

Publicado originalmente por CrUsHeR:

Twin Fangs works, but it does Piercing and Vitality damage, and thus won't scale well with Aether Damage builds because you only have 22% weapon damage and the rest is a single hit (not an active buff on you like Ghoul).

In that case you're better off with passive lifesteal devotions.

General rule: "Attack Damage converted to Health" from spells and abilities works with every form of damage, and that includes Devotion effects.
The same ADctH effect on equipment however only works with "Weapon Attacks". Wether a skill is a weapon attack or not has to be checked in the tooltip.

Small correction.
The passive stat "ADctH" will only work on Weapon attacks. That includes passive boosts from devotions. Every source of ADctH that is not bound to a specific offensive action (like a celestial skill) will only work on skills with weapon damage, while ADctG bound to an offensive action will work on the damage of that particular skill/celestial.

This is helpful.. so if I attached Ghoulish Hunger to Drain Essense.. it will work?

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Publicado originalmente por CrUsHeR:

Publicado originalmente por RhodosGuard:

Small correction.
The passive stat "ADctH" will only work on Weapon attacks. That includes passive boosts from devotions. Every source of ADctH that is not bound to a specific offensive action (like a celestial skill) will only work on skills with weapon damage, while ADctG bound to an offensive action will work on the damage of that particular skill/celestial.

Correction to the correction :)

http://grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat.php

" Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health is a form of life steal available in Grim Dawn. It functions differently depending on whether you find it on equipment or on a skill. When on equipment, life steal applies only to your weapon attacks. If you use a skill with % Weapon Damage, that component of the skill benefit from the life steal. In either case, only the direct damage is considered for life steal. Damage over Time, such as Bleed or Poison, does not trigger it.

When found on a skill, Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health applies to all of that skill's direct damage. "

So I'm wrong about "all damage" because it doesn't work with DoTs, and the stat from equipment still works with skills that have a listed % weapon damage portion.

Your statement seems to be contradicting the game guide, it clearly says that skills with ADctH always work. Devotions are definitely not equipment.

A question here... so is this saying that only the Aether DMG on Drain Essense is giving me any life steal? Not the damage over time from VIT decay?

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Publicado originalmente por CrUsHeR:

Twin Fangs works, but it does Piercing and Vitality damage, and thus won't scale well with Aether Damage builds because you only have 22% weapon damage and the rest is a single hit (not an active buff on you like Ghoul).

In that case you're better off with passive lifesteal devotions.

General rule: "Attack Damage converted to Health" from spells and abilities works with every form of damage, and that includes Devotion effects.
The same ADctH effect on equipment however only works with "Weapon Attacks". Wether a skill is a weapon attack or not has to be checked in the tooltip.

When you say, "effect on equipment only works with wep atks" do you mean components too? Like the Hollow (or whatever the +vit one is)component will work for Drain Essense right?

meaning if you attach a (flat)+ vit dmg component it will affect all attacks thus also increase the dmg of drain essence and by second nature slightly increase that skills own ADthC. A +vit % dmg component would not -unless you had decomposition, since Drain essence without modifiers doesn't do flat vit dmg benefitting from +%dmg
but if you use Restless Remains component (flat +3% life steal) then that component/life steal still only applies to attacks made that features weapon dmg

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

This is helpful.. so if I attached Ghoulish Hunger to Drain Essense.. it will work?

no, partially because Ghoulish hunger is attached to a passive buff not a skill/attack
mostly because like usual ghoulish hunger applies to weapon dmg type hits - since no skill modifiers are on the drain essence line you would need a pieace of gear that "adds % wpn dmg to Drain Essence" for it to be able to life leech when Ghoul activates

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

A question here... so is this saying that only the Aether DMG on Drain Essense is giving me any life steal? Not the damage over time from VIT decay?

correct
which is why decomposition can be handy there

[RhodosGuard]

They should just rename one stat.

If it's on an ability they could make it "skill damage converted to health" and the other "weapon damage converted to health"

Ghoulish Hunger is a buff, and therefore only appliable to buffs, and when it triggers it adds "Weapon Damage converted to health"

if you have a Conduit of Undying Whispers with the "24% weapon damage added to Essence Drain" Suffix it will benefit from 24% of your Weapon Damage converted to health. Which is obviously most useful to non-casters.

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Publicado originalmente por gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

This is helpful.. so if I attached Ghoulish Hunger to Drain Essense.. it will work?

no, partially because Ghoulish hunger is attached to a passive buff not a skill/attack
mostly because like usual ghoulish hunger applies to weapon dmg type hits - since no skill modifiers are on the drain essence line you would need a pieace of gear that "adds % wpn dmg to Drain Essence" for it to be able to life leech when Ghoul activates

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

A question here... so is this saying that only the Aether DMG on Drain Essense is giving me any life steal? Not the damage over time from VIT decay?

correct
which is why decomposition can be handy there

Ok, so will modified Aether Ray leech life as Vit dmg?

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Ok, so will modified Aether Ray leech life as Vit dmg?

only if you have a piece of gear that specifically adds either "Attack damage converted to health for Aether Ray" - or an item that adds +% weapon dmg to Aether Ray (like Rhodos mentioned with Conduit of Undyign whispers for Drain Essence) while having passive life leech % stats
-if you misspoke/meant Drain Essence; converted from aather to vitality, then yes it will life leech just normally as vit dmg and whatever +vit bonus you have

[RhodosGuard]

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Publicado originalmente por gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

no, partially because Ghoulish hunger is attached to a passive buff not a skill/attack
mostly because like usual ghoulish hunger applies to weapon dmg type hits - since no skill modifiers are on the drain essence line you would need a pieace of gear that "adds % wpn dmg to Drain Essence" for it to be able to life leech when Ghoul activates


correct
which is why decomposition can be handy there

Ok, so will modified Aether Ray leech life as Vit dmg?

As long as there is no Weapon Damage on it it will not leech life.

For something to leech life it:

1. either needs to have the ADctH added to it directly -> All skill damage will heal by the indicated amount

2. Have %-Weapon Damage on it -> passive "lifesteal" will apply

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Publicado originalmente por RhodosGuard:

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Ok, so will modified Aether Ray leech life as Vit dmg?

As long as there is no Weapon Damage on it it will not leech life.

For something to leech life it:

1. either needs to have the ADctH added to it directly -> All skill damage will heal by the indicated amount

2. Have %-Weapon Damage on it -> passive "lifesteal" will apply

Thanks for the response!

So would a skill like Calidoor's Tempest give life back to user if the user has ADctH on equipment/buffs?

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Publicado originalmente por RhodosGuard:

As long as there is no Weapon Damage on it it will not leech life.

For something to leech life it:

1. either needs to have the ADctH added to it directly -> All skill damage will heal by the indicated amount

2. Have %-Weapon Damage on it -> passive "lifesteal" will apply

Thanks for the response!

So would a skill like Calidoor's Tempest give life back to user if the user has ADctH on equipment/buffs?

yes, since Calidors tempest uses 12%^ weapon dmg it will apply life leech
any skill that says "X % weapon damage" on skill tooltip will make use of ADctH

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Publicado originalmente por gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Thanks for the response!

So would a skill like Calidoor's Tempest give life back to user if the user has ADctH on equipment/buffs?

yes, since Calidors tempest uses 12%^ weapon dmg it will apply life leech
any skill that says "X % weapon damage" on skill tooltip will make use of ADctH

That makes a lot of sense. they make it hard to understand ADCTH.. geez.

So just to double check, Ghoulish Hunger will NOT work with Drain Essense?

Also, come check out the build in action at www.twitch.tv/GoKuromagi

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Publicado originalmente por JamaicanBeef:

Publicado originalmente por gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

yes, since Calidors tempest uses 12%^ weapon dmg it will apply life leech
any skill that says "X % weapon damage" on skill tooltip will make use of ADctH

That makes a lot of sense. they make it hard to understand ADCTH.. geez.

So just to double check, Ghoulish Hunger will NOT work with Drain Essense?

Also, come check out the build in action at www.twitch.tv/GoKuromagi

no, ghoul too only works with attacks/skills that have some %weap dmg on them
so you would need to have a piece of gear that modifies drain essence to apply %weap dmg to the skill (like Conduit of Undying Whispers that Rhodos mentioned) for it to work with ghoul -and then it would also work with other passive ADctH stats
otherwise "pure" magic skills never work with ghoul/ADctH stats, unless the skill itself specifically has its own life steal (like siphon souls etc -and then it's only the skills own direct dmg you get a % of, not your other life steal bonuses added on top)

[Atomic Kid]

like stated above, any attack that has weapon damage % works with life steal. Some armor pieces add that mod to skills that lack that making them req if you wanted to maximize that attack as being able to regen life on your main attack makes it much better. Some attacks just dont have weapon % even on gear so imo they usually could be used as a supportive ability to main but not as main atk.

Ghoul in paticular desptie the nerfs makes you nearly invincible if you are attacking with high dps with weapon damage % on a spamable move during the 5 sec that ghoulish hunger is on. Charoit of the dead i see is taken if you want massive amounts of oa and a meh heal (its more for the da) though that def gives a ton of oa which is good for nearly all builds except pet users.

twin fang is one of the better atks in the game even if you arent using that dps type mainly if you need green and red and attach it to main attack as you can gain decent life back if your weapon is strong. And unlike flame torrent, twin fangs is a long range attack so you dont have to be up in the enemy face to have it being used and when it hits enemies provided the skill has weapon damage % it refills your hp and its stronger if your main dps type is pierce or vit as the flat damage counts as well

[RodHull]

If you want a passive heal that works well on spells use wendigo in your case attach it to a dot like Ill Omen or RE and just watch the health roll in

[Atomic Kid]

theres also devotions like heavens spear, olreans rage, that dont even take into account your main atk and uses its own modifers and weapon damage so if you have some life leech on gear and a spear from spear of the heavens hits something, even if that attack has 0 weapon damage, that devotion will refill your hp so devotions with weapon damage are quite good and spear of the heavens has really high weapon damage added to attack so it can refill you hp a lot,

which is why twin fangs and flame torrent is so good, twin fangs very easily hits twice on 1 enemy and hits more enemies as it passes though and it has more life steal then a normal move, and flame torrent rotates around you and does multiple hits which refills your hp. Retalation chars will prob take targo anvil for their move, you get so many hammers all hitting enemies and refilling hp, and poison chars usually take guardian gaze for a sim thing