How does Twin Fang & Ghoulish Hunger work for Spellbinder DE build?

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Hey Steam Fam,

I'm geeked about the new launch of Grim Dawn expansion and wanted to try something new. I'm working on a Spellbinder (Necro/Arcan). For Devotions planning on Drain Essence + Self heals + Dying God + Will of Rattosh + Gaint Blood + Wayward Soul.

Could someone explain if Twin Fang will work for Drain Essense?

Also, how will Ghoulish Hunger work in the build attached to say, Arcane Will, Flash Freeze or Ill Omen?

If you'd like to see me leveling up, I stream at www.twitch.tv/Gokurogami

[baddog993]

Not sure about Twin Fangs but Ghoulish Hunger works when your health drops below a certain amount and any attack damage you do 30% gets converted over to health. The more damage the more health you get back. It should not matter what skill its attached to. It works when your health drops.

[CrUsHeR]

Twin Fangs works, but it does Piercing and Vitality damage, and thus won't scale well with Aether Damage builds because you only have 22% weapon damage and the rest is a single hit (not an active buff on you like Ghoul).

In that case you're better off with passive lifesteal devotions.

General rule: "Attack Damage converted to Health" from spells and abilities works with every form of damage, and that includes Devotion effects.
The same ADctH effect on equipment however only works with "Weapon Attacks". Wether a skill is a weapon attack or not has to be checked in the tooltip.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Twin Fangs works, but it does Piercing and Vitality damage, and thus won't scale well with Aether Damage builds because you only have 22% weapon damage and the rest is a single hit (not an active buff on you like Ghoul).

In that case you're better off with passive lifesteal devotions.

General rule: "Attack Damage converted to Health" from spells and abilities works with every form of damage, and that includes Devotion effects.
The same ADctH effect on equipment however only works with "Weapon Attacks". Wether a skill is a weapon attack or not has to be checked in the tooltip.

Small correction.
The passive stat "ADctH" will only work on Weapon attacks. That includes passive boosts from devotions. Every source of ADctH that is not bound to a specific offensive action (like a celestial skill) will only work on skills with weapon damage, while ADctG bound to an offensive action will work on the damage of that particular skill/celestial.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Small correction.
The passive stat "ADctH" will only work on Weapon attacks. That includes passive boosts from devotions. Every source of ADctH that is not bound to a specific offensive action (like a celestial skill) will only work on skills with weapon damage, while ADctG bound to an offensive action will work on the damage of that particular skill/celestial.

Correction to the correction :)

http://grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat.php

" Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health is a form of life steal available in Grim Dawn. It functions differently depending on whether you find it on equipment or on a skill. When on equipment, life steal applies only to your weapon attacks. If you use a skill with % Weapon Damage, that component of the skill benefit from the life steal. In either case, only the direct damage is considered for life steal. Damage over Time, such as Bleed or Poison, does not trigger it.

When found on a skill, Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health applies to all of that skill's direct damage. "

So I'm wrong about "all damage" because it doesn't work with DoTs, and the stat from equipment still works with skills that have a listed % weapon damage portion.

Your statement seems to be contradicting the game guide, it clearly says that skills with ADctH always work. Devotions are definitely not equipment.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Small correction.
The passive stat "ADctH" will only work on Weapon attacks. That includes passive boosts from devotions. Every source of ADctH that is not bound to a specific offensive action (like a celestial skill) will only work on skills with weapon damage, while ADctG bound to an offensive action will work on the damage of that particular skill/celestial.

Correction to the correction :)

http://grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat.php

" Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health is a form of life steal available in Grim Dawn. It functions differently depending on whether you find it on equipment or on a skill. When on equipment, life steal applies only to your weapon attacks. If you use a skill with % Weapon Damage, that component of the skill benefit from the life steal. In either case, only the direct damage is considered for life steal. Damage over Time, such as Bleed or Poison, does not trigger it.

When found on a skill, Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health applies to all of that skill's direct damage. "

So I'm wrong about "all damage" because it doesn't work with DoTs, and the stat from equipment still works with skills that have a listed % weapon damage portion.

Your statement seems to be contradicting the game guide, it clearly says that skills with ADctH always work. Devotions are definitely not equipment.

equipment = passive life steal - applies weapon only attacks(some skills have weapon attack modifier like X mainhand dmg, boneharvest, aegis of menhir etc)
skill = "active" life steal (such as siphon souls)
devotion(non skill) = passive = same as equipment
devotion skill (ghoul hunger, wendigo mark etc) = regular skill function/"active" life steal -on said skill(activation) only
^my understanding, not sure if people are misinterpreting eachother (or if i compeltely misudnerstood passive devo function)

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Small correction.
The passive stat "ADctH" will only work on Weapon attacks. That includes passive boosts from devotions. Every source of ADctH that is not bound to a specific offensive action (like a celestial skill) will only work on skills with weapon damage, while ADctG bound to an offensive action will work on the damage of that particular skill/celestial.

Correction to the correction :)

http://grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat.php

" Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health is a form of life steal available in Grim Dawn. It functions differently depending on whether you find it on equipment or on a skill. When on equipment, life steal applies only to your weapon attacks. If you use a skill with % Weapon Damage, that component of the skill benefit from the life steal. In either case, only the direct damage is considered for life steal. Damage over Time, such as Bleed or Poison, does not trigger it.

When found on a skill, Percent of Attack Damage Converted to Health applies to all of that skill's direct damage. "

So I'm wrong about "all damage" because it doesn't work with DoTs, and the stat from equipment still works with skills that have a listed % weapon damage portion.

Your statement seems to be contradicting the game guide, it clearly says that skills with ADctH always work. Devotions are definitely not equipment.

The game makes no distinction between ADctH from, lets say the Star before the Celestial Skill from ghoul, or from an Item. ADctH, no matter whether you acquire it through EQ, or through a star, if it is not part of an skill (Celestial, EQ proc, Normal Skills) it will only work on Weapon Damage, unless it's a buff, of course. If a buff adds ADctH it's the same as Equipment or a star.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

also, to clarify, i just tested, i have 7% "passive" ADctH from devos, and when i use judment(Oathkeeper skill, 0 wepaon stats attached), i get 0 life back on dmg, but when i use Aegis of menhir(which has weapon%atck) i do get a chunk of health -so definitely seems to work like Rhodos says

[CrUsHeR]

I see. So the game guide actually doesn't mention a passive bonus (from devotions), the "on skill" only means something like Siphon Souls which directly has life steal listed.

So what is contributing to lifesteal in this build (and what isn't) :
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2BAP8DN

It's nearly impossible to die unless getting stunned, because i seem to heal myself full about once per second as long as Devastation/Albrecht are active. Giant's Blood and Ghoul are obviously on cooldown most of the time.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

I see. So the game guide actually doesn't mention a passive bonus (from devotions), the "on skill" only means something like Siphon Souls which directly has life steal listed.

So what is contributing to lifesteal in this build (and what isn't) :
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2BAP8DN

It's nearly impossible to die unless getting stunned, because i seem to heal myself full about once per second as long as Devastation/Albrecht are active. Giant's Blood and Ghoul are obviously on cooldown most of the time.

i couldn't find/see anything apparent that should cause regen like that
so i just tried your exact build, at no point did i get hp return on AAB or Devast -did get decent leech while doing mh swings tho
guessing you have siphon souls active when you get life leech?

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

guessing you have siphon souls active when you get life leech?

Yes, playing this as an actual priority/rotation where SS is always active, cycling through the 4 active skills and then pumping Albrecht's as the energy allows it.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:

guessing you have siphon souls active when you get life leech?

Yes, playing this as an actual priority/rotation where SS is always active, cycling through the 4 active skills and then pumping Albrecht's as the energy allows it.

well there's your answer for your life leech then ;)
but it's not your passive ADctH stats that heals you, (nor in conjuction with AB or Devast), that's for sure, if you were aiming at that, -unless if your swinging your mainhand too sometimes
Soul Siphon obviously will constantly be healing you every few secs/activation, more so in larger clusters it hits given its generous heal,
but ADctH is weapon "swings"/dmg scaling only still it seems (after "thorough" testing just now) ;)

[RhodosGuard]

Spear of Heavens
% Weapon Damage on it, 50% chance to trigger when hit.

[gNuff!~©~gNom3™]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Spear of Heavens
% Weapon Damage on it, 50% chance to trigger when hit.

lol i completely missed this focusing entirely on AAB and Devast, and didn't even have it "on buff" when testing either
that definitely adds to it too then CrUsHeR -i'm definteily getting regular upticks with that on active now, still not AAB or Devast doing it ofc tho, but Spear +SS gives constant heals indeed

[CrUsHeR]

I see, thanks.

[Kurogami187/TTV]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Twin Fangs works, but it does Piercing and Vitality damage, and thus won't scale well with Aether Damage builds because you only have 22% weapon damage and the rest is a single hit (not an active buff on you like Ghoul).

In that case you're better off with passive lifesteal devotions.

General rule: "Attack Damage converted to Health" from spells and abilities works with every form of damage, and that includes Devotion effects.
The same ADctH effect on equipment however only works with "Weapon Attacks". Wether a skill is a weapon attack or not has to be checked in the tooltip.

When you say, "effect on equipment only works with wep atks" do you mean components too? Like the Hollow (or whatever the +vit one is)component will work for Drain Essense right?