Grim Dawn

Grim Dawn

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Mr Fantastic Apr 29, 2020 @ 1:06pm
No upcoming crate games?
Weird that grim dawn was quite successful and yet they are not working on any good game?

Same happened with titan quest back then, no new games.

Are the devs simply retired after putting out a good game and that's it?
Originally posted by MTB-Fritz:
I ve read through most of the pages but want to adress the OP ^^

I can understand the wish to get more, and better versions of Grim Dawn. That game is a master piece but never forget that it became a masterpiece because Crate did what they wanted to do. Applying pressure of any kind will most likely deteriorate that performance.

Titan Quest wasnt my go-to ARPG but it put the company on my radar because I considered it a good game, just the topic wasnt to my taste. Grim Dawn tho checks all my boxes. In short....I trust Crate to deliver in their own time because they did so in the past. And their ongoing support of Grim Dawn over the years was and still is outstanding.

I am not into game development even tho I do dabble into discussions surrounding it. I find it interesting, doesnt mean I need to study or practics it in order to have an opinion.

From experience I know that you get the best results from creative minds if you give em the freedum and peace to do what they do. Its not on a timetable and development might not match your taste 1:1 but if you apply pressure (aka publishers) things usually go downhill.

Ubisoft was taken as an example yet the games Ubisoft directs and releases are as creative as a doorframe. Valhalla LOOKS amazing but thats really the only thing we know and not a good metric to determine a games quality. Too often new releases flash their audience with visual fluff while the actual meat of the product is bad or non-existing. Counts for movies as well. Most publishers or companies having money to burn stay with rehases and cheap upgrades on existing titles rather then take a risk and do something new.

Thats something we usually get from Indi companies. Which struggle to stay alive and who all too often dont cash out on their own creativity.

If crate thinks they need to diverse their work for whatever reasons I think they earned that trust from their community and of course, they are independant so their word in this matter is law.

Having mod support for GD has helped a lot to keep the game alive and fresh IMO. Too many publishers shy away from mod support because it dips into their profit but yeah, whole different topic.

City builders can be engaging and fun. Played quite a few in my time. The thing with experts like Crate is that their knowledge usually sieves into other games of theirs. Might be lore, might be mechanics, might be something else that links their games together. You dont need to focus on one franchise and develop it until its stale. Asassins Creed is a good example for that.

Also the fact that Crate didnt monetize their game into the abyss like Ubisoft does....respect and credit there. These guys earned my support and that involves sitting on my hands and trusting in them to do what they do.

Last thing.....this is a forum. We are here to talk, exchange ideas and also to help each other. OP is just talking, he might disagree with the majority or the companies decision. Thats all okay. I ve seen several replies who seem to get aggrevated by his nudges and answer with increasingly toxic replies designed to trigger and shut up. To those people I say either stay away or use this opportunity to hone your talking skills because you seriously need to get better at it.

Oh and @mods....armchair development is part of the game, its what fans DO...you should use it as an additional layer of ideas and disregard what isnt to your taste. Trying to shut people up because they dont sing praise and go to their knees.....bad form.
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Showing 196-199 of 199 comments
RodHull May 9, 2020 @ 4:56am 
Originally posted by Cesar:
I didn't say there was save data loss, there was save incompatibilities at some point during updates, for example I could not use my MC I did when the game released, after I got AM last year, only choice was to make a new character.

There's several reports about crashes on the shattered realm, was there any update that fixed the crashes or at least minimizes the loss and makes it possible to claim rewards or be able to resume from where you left off?

On my game last time I checked, I have most achievements for the SR, but if I want to try it I have to start from scratch.

I simply ignored the SR after that, doesn't really add much to the game anyhow. Exploration and the Instances with game lore and mini stories about the people who live there are the meaty bits of the game.

What kind of pointer do you need? Is there a way I can check crash records or something? I still have the game installed.

My Dude one of the lead developers just called you out on your BS I would quit while I was not to far behind if I was you.

Several crash reports wow really we should inform the authorities, several crash reports on a computer game thats unheard of and clearly all the fault of the developers definitely no user error.

And no you didn't specifically say data loss but you implied it by equating the issues in GD to those in Wolcen which had several critical bugs which literally deleted your progress. As for the issue you mention, its not a known issue (nor has it ever been) that MCs break between updates, now clearly you cant go backwards in version numbers but its never been a thing that new versions make old characters unplayable. If you had such an issue then send them the character file, Zantai literally just said they would look into any issue you send them (but you won't as we both know)

Not sure what you even mean about achievements and SR makes no sense as a statement??

Pointer as in detail the issue you have in SR and then if required send them the character file so they can try to reproduce the bug.

Originally posted by Cesar:
That's what you get when trying to get a serious conversation going in this forum it seems, I just wonder if people can't see their behavior actually damages the image of the game.

Not even my crazy ex was this attention seeking, dudes are in dire need of some action XD

More tired passive aggressive insults... and yeah that damaged image of GD sitting on over 90% review score, we are harming it so much.

Originally posted by SpaceGoatMage:
Gotta say it seems like OP is just baiting at this point.

Powbam called it pages ago that this was a veiled bait and it clearly was, I was unaware of this particular individual so gave them the benefit of the doubt but seems I was wrong to do so.


SchnitzelTruck May 9, 2020 @ 9:06am 
Originally posted by Cesar:
Originally posted by MedeaFleecestealer:
Boy this topic has gone a long way from "no upcoming Crate games".

That's what you get when trying to get a serious conversation going in this forum it seems, I just wonder if people can't see their behavior actually damages the image of the game.

Not even my crazy ex was this attention seeking, dudes are in dire need of some action XD
Serious conversations where thousands of words are written but non of it is worth saying. You're one of those people who like hearing themself speak.
Seamus May 9, 2020 @ 9:12am 
What a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ trainwreck of a thread. How has this not been locked yet?
Crate Entertainment  [developer] May 24, 2020 @ 8:59pm 
Man, this thread... no need to get all heated over game discussion. Not like anything said here is going to hurt GD's feelings.

Why are we not just jumping on GD2 - for one thing, I've been making ARPGs for like 18 years and I need a break. I think also to really improve upon GD and compete with D4 and whatever PoE is doing next, we'll need to make a big investment and have some fresh ideas. We'll also need to either overhaul our engine or jump into Unreal or whatever. On that topic, someone mentioned going to Unreal, which would certainly almost guarantee great graphics... however, ARPGs require some special consideration when it comes to engine architecture and Unreal is not natively designed for that type of performance. The tools are also not great for an ARPG. We'd have to do some engine work and a lot of tool work and after that, we'd be starting from scratch in terms of ARPG combat / features. It would be a lot less work to overhaul GD.

Also, 5% engine fee would be millions of dollars and it's not like we can just assume in advance we'll get some sort of offer for an exclusive that is worth enough to offset, which I am doubtful would be the case.

On the other hand..."But GD is an old engine and...." Do you know how old Unreal is?! Part of what has kept up from making major graphics updates to GD is that we are burdened with having to support the specs we put out years ago, for older directX versions and operating systems. We can't just update the game in a way that will break it for existing users who have to play on older machines. A jump to a sequel though gives us an opportunity to start fresh, cut support for older shader models and directX versions, hardware specs, and allow us to greatly modernized the engine. If you scrap the renderer and start over there, it's not like the age of whatever you keep matters - it's basically like a new engine. Beyond the engine component, we have an entire ARPG codebase we can then use, which cuts out a ton of work. Even if we go in a direction drastically different from GD, there are a lot of fundamentals to ARPG gameplay that take time to program and get working just right. It would be easier and lower risk to start from a point of being able to say "what do we want to change, cut, add" to an existing codebase.

Not sure what direction we'll go in terms of engine but it's not a straightforward choice. There are big pros and cons either way.

GD is also still doing quite well - last year was our highest earning year by far and this year it looks like we're on track to meet or exceed revenue from 2016, when GD released.

As someone pointed out above, we have no investors or publisher and I am the sole owner, so you can imagine I'm doing pretty okay and my biggest motivation is not to maximize profits at this point. And really, that's great for fans because chasing profits often leads to decisions that are not beneficial for players.

Why a town builder? Well, I loved the genre when I was younger and I've always wanted to make one. I also wanted to take a break from such content-heavy games as ARPGs and do something that was more pure gameplay. I also think it is almost guaranteed to break even and will probably make a pretty nice profit. I also wouldn't say town builders don't sell - just look at Banished, which has sold around 2m copies. Sure, no town builder has numbers like the Diablo franchise but there isn't actually a lot of competition in that genre compared to ARPGs. We have two huge competitions with Diablo and PoE, plus various smaller ones, and ARPG players will often stick to a game for years. Wolcen was lucky to release when they did but if we start on GD2, it's very likely, we'll be releasing alongside the next Diablo (again) and whatever PoE does next.

One thing I think a lot of people fail to consider when they look at financial success of games is the development cost. Sales don't directly equal profit - profit is what you're left with once you deduct dev costs from sales revenue. So there is something to be said for a project that maybe has lower sales potential but also has a much lower development cost. As far as this city builder goes, we won't need to sell that many copies to break even, so I think we're almost guaranteed to make a nice profit on it.

Finally, while we do intend to return to GD in the future, we don't want to be a one-trick pony. There is definite value and stability in establishing multiple successful franchises vs. just churning out the same game year after year, hoping people don't get tired of it. The idea that a developer who made ARPGs can only make ARPGs is a very publisher-like sentiment. We ran into this very skepticism when we pitched Titan Quest and the problem then was - we were known as RTS designers. Yep, at Iron Lore, Brian Sullivan and myself only had experience on RTS (I got my start in the industry doing mp balance testing for Age of Kings, then did design work on the original Empire Earth) and publishers weren't sure we could manage to make a successful ARPG. Now you're telling me I can't make a strategy game and have to stick with ARPG?! Haha, not sure I want to know what you'd say then if we told you what else we were working on...

Anyway, sorry no GD2 yet but hope that answers some of your questions. Don't worry, we're not about to go bankrupt anytime in the foreseeable future. We'll get back to GD before too long.

-Medierra
Last edited by Crate Entertainment; May 25, 2020 @ 12:22am
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Grim Dawn > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Apr 29, 2020 @ 1:06pm
Posts: 199