GRIM DAWN VS DIABLO 3 in 2019

[John Showdown]

So, to clarify things. I'm kinda split between buying either this game or Diablo 3. I'm sort of new to the genre, haven't played any ARPG except a bit of Path of Exile.
Which game would you recommend to me and why?

[Shyue Chou]

Why not play both, Diablo 3 and Grim Dawn?

I have played Path of Exile, a lot of Diablo 3 and finally even more Grim Dawn. Unless you are pressed for time, all three are unique in their own ways.

I played D3 when it first came out and finished it. A few years later, I returned and played the Greater Rifts aspect till GR70, then, I stopped. I have five characters, each hitting between GR55-GR70.

For GD, I played and finished normal when it first came out in 2016. I returned to GD in 2018 and played six characters to level 100.

[·ºSH13LDº·]

Definitely Grim Dawn, I've played alot of hack and slash genre games. And Diablo 3 is one of the worst out of all of them. With one of the worst replayability I've ever seen in a game ever, to be fair it is fun for a playthrough and then some, it has nice graphics but it gets terribly boring pretty fast. Grim Dawn is closer to PoE than it is to Diablo 3 aswell. They all have their pros and cons and although I can't speak much for the end game of Grim Dawn as I've not spent enough time yet to have a good opinion on that. I will say that Diablo 3 was seriously one of the most boring games I've ever played. You hit end game so fast, and the progression feels meaningless and the gameplay repetetive. Aswell as having less customization than ever as you have no attribute point distribution system, it's automatic in Diablo 3 on level up what stats you aquire. It's kind of hard to be worse than Diablo 3 and that is why I would say Grim Dawn for sure.

[kegomatix]

Grim Dawn hands down. I do wish the multiplayer was more lively, though. I long for those D2 multiplayer days again, so much fun was had.

[RodHull]

D3 is in fairness a very different game these days, GD and POE are more traditional loot focused ARPGs with the emphasis on builds and mechanics, where as D3 is a much more action oriented take on the genre which simplifies alot of the choice mechanics its predecessors made so popular.

It fills a niche its a casual game and in terms of fluid fast combat and drop in/out MP it is unrivalled but thats about all its good at.

[V.V.]

Grim Dawn has more class customization and the Devotion system is icing on the cake. Diablo 3 has the Paragon system, which is there to keep you playing and lvling for bonus' and buffs, but it's more of a time sink than anything else.

You got a lot more level difficulty tiers in DIablo 3, and also bounties and Rifts/Grifts. There's also Nemesis on the console, I don't remember if they brought it to the PC version or not, they did finally bring Seasons to console a couple years back.

Grim Dawn's story is a lot more interesting (IMHO) and the Acts are a lot longer. Overall I think Grim Dawn is better, simply because of the classes and the sheer amount of build options that are available.

[DarkHorsePrime]

I see it like this.

If you like a rich story and don't mind reading, GD wins hands down. D3 story is pretty bland and POE... well nobody really give a s**t about the story. It's all get to maps, build ES meta, ect.

If you like tons of loot, power creep and complexity go with POE. Overwhelming at first yes but it's just an illusion exile. 2000+ hrs experience.

If you like...umm...hmm...killing ponies?
D3 is the game for you. I liked vanilla D3 but not what it's turned into. Story is pretty boring and predictable and rifts/G-rifts are boring af.

Over all GD probably comes out on top with just enough complexity to keep each play-through and build feeling fresh.

Each to their own though, every one has different tastes. This is just my 2 cents.

[Big Boinka]

Long term, I have gotten a LOT more out of Grim Dawn. Diablo 3 is really shallow by comparison, however, Diablo 3 is potentially a better multiplayer game, if you are just wanting to jump in and out of games at your own convenience.

I still play Grim Dawn, and I haven't played Diablo 3 in over a year.

[Shyue Chou]

After a year or so of exploring the Grim Dawn endgame and also the expansion, here are my revised rankings. Initially, I had D3 ranked 2nd and Victor Vran ranked top. These are but my opinions of course, yours may differ greatly. PoE only comes in a distant 5th place. It is not immersive nor particularly fun. The graphics are lacklustre, the environment design is like a big arena, you don't feel the world. The thing I like is the 'classless' system.

Diablo 1 ranks lowest because it is old, and has been overtaken not because it is bad, it was great for its time. Ditto for Rage of Mages, Diablo 2. The Torchlight games were bland and utterly forgettable.

1. Grim Dawn
2. Victor Vran
3. Diablo 3
4. Titanquest
5. Path of Exile
6. The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 3
7. The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2
8. The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 1
9. Diablo 2
10. Rage of Mages 1
11. Rage of Mages 2
12. Dungeon Siege 1
13. Dungeon Siege 2
14. Torchlight 1
15. Torchlight 2
16. Diablo 1

I have Fate and it is an old one but I will give it a try. I also tried a few cheap indie ones not too long ago but I was distracted.

[Xeroze]

My case with grim dawn is a on-and-off love affair that somehow ended up as a total of 1.1k hours. I started rather early (before AoM), so the number of hours is a sum of a few runs of play rather than single sustained playing through the years. About 300 hours of those are probably inactive because grim dawn was the program i used to basically make my laptop run as a heater (older laptop heats up rather badly, or well since i was basically moving every few months back then as a graduate student and a heater was pretty optional in the sub-tropics)

In any case, grim dawn has a few things that it does really well, and a few which.. well, lets say that it has a lot of room for improvement.

My first run with grim dawn lasted 3 hours, halfway through act 1. Grim dawn has a few things which didnt click with me on the first run:
1. Starting gameplay was so, so, so boring. In the first act, at sub level 10, u have like 1 class, and basically all u're doing is basic attacks with whatever u have, and...maybe one skill. And leveling a few skills early on is pretty bad on survivability, which kinda sucked.
2. Stylistically it has basically none of the stuff i wanted and all of the stuff i hated, namely:
-No bows/arrow and the crossbows are weirdly implemented, especially with how armor piercing works.
-Hate all the post-apocolyptic world setting, and all the themes about death and gloom. I game to get away from those stuff.
-Ranged weapons might as well be melee, because most of the time u'll be fighting in melee range, and kiting/strafing with a ranged weapon is basically impossible since the monsters move a lot faster than u. Forgotten gods might change that, but as of now it's basically melee range and the only thing ranged weapons has going for them is shotgunning mechanics.
3. Information barrier is ridiculous. U start with, what, 8 damage times, an hugely complicated damage calculation formula, hugely complicated defense formula, 5 different defensive (armor, resist, DA, chance to avoid projectiles/block/deflect, absorption, ARMOR absorption, wth) and offensive stats (OA, attack/cast speed, %bonus damage, flat bonus damage, weapon %damage, and probably more stuff down there). and there's damage conversion, etc etc. Some are intuitive (attack/cast speed, % bonus damage, flat damage), some are less intuitive (offensive ability tied to crit chance and hit rate with a formula that isnt that intuitive)

Ended up going through a gauntlet trio of aRPG in Van Helsing (1 and 2, both of which felt like there's something missing), Torchlight 2 (which i completed the main storyline and then gave up after that. It's fun to jump/run around as a barbarian, but the depth/build variety is basically non-existent) and Victor Vran (action top-down hack-and-slash game masquerading as an aRPG, tbh).

Went back to Grim dawn after and found the thing that makes it click. Grim dawn has unrivaled depth, build diversity, flexibility, and most of all, it scales in a way that is hugely satisfying. The horrendously boring start-up builds up into a game with more options and depths to build the characters that u want, with different ways to get there. It was enough for me to sink in about 500+ hours on my second run before i got burnt out farming legendaries in the crucible and jump off to Monster Hunter World.

Came back again recently because i completed grinding MHW.

Grim dawn is a game that is good if u plan to sink in a lot of time. Not so nice if u're busy, but u can work around it with mods. The developers are hugely dedicated to one thing: making sure the game is fun, and understand that it means different stuff for different people, hence the large amount of mods available, as well as external build tools, data bases like griimtools, etc, that helps players through the game. If u have time to sink into an aRPG game, play grim dawn. Be warned though, the barrier to entry for the game can be quite high. It never hurts to take a hiatus.

[DeadlyDanDaMan]

If you want a super casual experience, go with Diablo 3. If you want something a little meatier, go with Grim Dawn. That's my opinion. Diablo 3 is incredibly watered down compared to Diablo 2 even.

[DeadlyDanDaMan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xeroze:

Grim dawn is a game that is good if u plan to sink in a lot of time. Not so nice if u're busy, but u can work around it with mods.

Hmmm, don't really agree with this sentence. I find it's nothing to be able to sit down for an hour or 2 and get quite a bit done in GD. You don't NEED an entire day to play for every session. The Rift Gates make for great checkpoints to quit and come back later (which is how they were designed). In the end game, you can just do quick loot runs in favorite areas, or hunt Nemesis's (Of course we have infinite dungeons coming in FG expansion, and I don't know how big each of those will be, but that's another option potentially). Neither of those take very long to do, and can be done MULTIPLE times in an hour. Just my 2 cents on that.

[Cyseal]

I've been playing Diablo-like games since Diablo 1, I've kinda played them all, but my favourites are definitely and without a doubt;
Diablo 1
Diablo 3
Grim Dawn.

Diablo 1 partly for nostalgic reasons, but it's just simple and it works and it looks great, even now. The setting and atmosphere is just perfect.

Anyway, I would never recommend Grim Dawn to a new player to the genre. It has too many complex mechanics to worry about, the combat doesn't have the same impact as in Diablo 3, for example and it feels outdated (mostly due to the engine). The story/lore is told in really boring dialogues and notes and there aren't cutscenes. It's simply more boring.

Diablo 3 is obviously the better choice for casual play and for new players; the story is presented in a much better way, it looks great (the models, the spell effects, animations), you can change your build in a second for free, the classes are really different from each other, there is adventure mode and a separate story mode. The loot and gearing is simple to understand, making it much easier to compare your items.

Grim Dawn is much, much more complex, isn't as polished as Diablo 3 and it can be really hard for a new player to jump in. You only have the story mode, with different difficulties you need to finish so it can easily become boring to reach the max level. The gearing is much more complex, you have to compare many more aspects of the items than in any other aRPG, you have to think about your resistances after the first playthrough, there is the Devotion system and there are tons of skills to choose from, etc..

It isn't even an opinion that Grim Dawn is not the better choice for beginners.

However! I prefer Grim Dawn due to the complex mechanics and all the minor things. The game isn't as polished, it's going on an outdated engine, it has it's problems, but I still love it. It can get boring to play, especially some areas, but the gear hunt is great. There's so many and they're much rarer than in Diablo 3, that I often make new characters based on the items that I get.

Hope that gives some insight to people thinking of buying Grim Dawn. I love the game, but I'm not childish enough to ignore the negative aspects of it. It's a game that kinda grows on you and when it clicks, it's just awesome.

[Xeroze]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von DeadlyDanDaMan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xeroze:

Grim dawn is a game that is good if u plan to sink in a lot of time. Not so nice if u're busy, but u can work around it with mods.

Hmmm, don't really agree with this sentence. I find it's nothing to be able to sit down for an hour or 2 and get quite a bit done in GD. You don't NEED an entire day to play for every session. The Rift Gates make for great checkpoints to quit and come back later (which is how they were designed). In the end game, you can just do quick loot runs in favorite areas, or hunt Nemesis's (Of course we have infinite dungeons coming in FG expansion, and I don't know how big each of those will be, but that's another option potentially). Neither of those take very long to do, and can be done MULTIPLE times in an hour. Just my 2 cents on that.

It isnt just about how long the loot run takes or the end game. But the process of getting to that point where u can run loot runs in 3-5 minutes. Not just in-game time, but rather also the process of understanding the game sufficiently to build a decent farming build, knowing where to go, knowing what content is purely option, what is best not skipped (like shrines, stat-quests etc) and what monster drops what MI. A lot of it is a lot more convenient now than when i started, but i have no way of knowing how much better it is (grimtools wasnt around when i started, along with no specific item database. There was still a grimdawn builder though). It's not impossible to play 1-2 hours at a time, but it's rather hard to play 1-2 hour, drop out for a day or so, and then come back for another session and still totally remember what u were trying to do if u're still new at the game. At the very least u need time to explore and understand how the game works, and that's rather time-exhausting.

That initial period where u dont have much loot to experiment around with forms a cycle where u have not enough loot so u cant test enough to build efficient stuff, and without efficient stuff u cant farm loot efficiently -> cycles itself. There's some beginner friendly guides out there, but even then it's "limitedly beginner friendly" as in a lot of builds in there just doesnt require rolling prefix/suffix but still require like a toon which is almost fully-equipped with legendaries which is basically impossible for newcomers.

Constant patching doesnt help those either. It took me 4 different toons before i actually reached the typical defined end-game (clearing ultimate AoM). A lot of builds that u follow are barely end-game viable if u dont have some key pieces, which as a new comer it's almost impossible to tell if the guide doesnt specifically say so.

[INSANE]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von STDRandom Lead:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von powbam:

Considering that you can respec I find it hard to actually "gimp" a character permanently. The only case where this would apply is if you decided you wanted a different mastery choice.. that you cannot do without 3rd party tools.

Not referring to skills. Limited stash plus a whole ton of equipment modifiers equals gimped if you decide to change tactics mid to late game refarming stuff. I will admit my wording wasnt clear.

Item Assistant exists. Wham. Infinite inventory space.

[DimensionHatross]

If you're new to Diablo 3 there's still a good game and value to be had, but the game itself is on life support (which is better than most older games mind you), but it's development cycle is over. With that said, you could still lose hundreds of hours to it and the build tinkering and looting is easy and rewarding.

I'd recommend Grim Dawn though if you want to go a little deeper on builds, and variety of play styles. It lacks some of the flash and mobility of D3, so feels a little more cumbersome, but the new expansion is adding things like mobility teleports so that may not be the case in a few days.

It's easy to hate D3 but it became a great game in its own right after a very rough start, but if you're looking to invest some time, I'd say you might find Grim Dawn more rewarding in the long run.