Grim Dawn

Grim Dawn

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igor140 Oct 23, 2018 @ 1:20pm
Deathknight: Am I doing it wrong?
I am a brand new player (bought the game last night, skipped work today). I THINK I like the idea of the Deathknight... but I'm having a bit of difficulty building it.

I am now lvl 19, and just arrived in the waterfront district of Burrwitch. Here are my current points:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZevpbkN

I'm using 2h swords, and i've been DESTROYING everything... right up until recently. For the life of me, I can't seem to find any AoE abilities. Recently, I've started running across enemies (still only lvl 18 or 19) that can kill me in two hits, or apply a DoT that kills me faster than the healing potions work. Am I doing this whole thing wrong?

Ill Omen (a recent addition) seems... kind of good... but not game-changing.

Drain Essence has been sorely underwhelming since I first got it. It's BARELY viable now that I've sunk 10 points into that chain, but I still end up getting hit for more damage than I recover.

Cadence seems really good, but I understand that it overlaps with the next two abilities, making it less ideal... but it still seems worth it.

Reaping Strike seems pretty cool, but doesn't really provide enough healing to rely on... but Spectral Binding (which I need to build more) make it worthwhile for the damage.

Markovian Advantage seems like a lesser version of of Reaping Strike. I get that it would be awesome on a pure melee build, but I'm going for a hybrid thing here... is it worth investing in at all?

Menhir's Will seems... lackluster. When I really get into the thick of it (i.e., the only times my HP drops below 33%), it's not enough healing to really make much of a difference. Maybe I need to invest more in it...

As a final thought, what's the deal with these Devotion things? It seems like a cool "extra" mechanic... but it's a bit overwhelming.
Last edited by igor140; Oct 23, 2018 @ 1:21pm
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
Welcome to the game. Have a look at this build for beginners.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74487
ZarahNeander Oct 23, 2018 @ 2:01pm 
For easy DK leveling: screw Drain essence, go Force Wave (make sure to take the Tremor transmuter). Wield the biggest, baddest 2h weapon, you can find. Murder everything. Here's your AoE.
On the necro side, focus on Spectral Binding/Spectral Wrath, ignore the rest for now.

Force Wave is a spell, so it uses Cast speed, not attack speed. For the same reason, skills triggering from default weapon attack like reaping strike are useless.

Edit: here's a quick and dirty template for a lowbie DK: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gv6MgN
Last edited by ZarahNeander; Oct 23, 2018 @ 2:08pm
Valkez Oct 23, 2018 @ 2:10pm 
Welcome to the game man :)

At first, the game does look fairly overwhelming. There are a lot of different skills that behave in different ways. You will find out that there are a lot of possible combos in this game, but some skills don't synergize well with eachother.

Drain Essence and melee are part of the latters. Drain Essence is one of those spells that require a focused investment on itself in order to be viable. Cadence is also fairly skill-points expensive, and doesn't interact with Drain Essence at all; same happens to Markovian's Advantage and Reaping Strike, they do work with Cadence, but not with Drain Essence.
The obvious solution would be to pick Drain Essence, or Cadence with MA and RS (the latter two are called Weapon Pool Skills btw, and they're activated only through autoattacks or autoattack modifiers such as Cadence, Savagery and Fire Strike).

This said, early on, you'd better focus on a single spell or attack. If you want to go the autoattack route, you would do better ignoring Cadence main skill and rushing Deadly Momentum (with 1 point in Fighting Spirit). DM provides you with flat damage, which is gold for any autoattack build.
If you prefere spells or spell-ish abilities, you can turn to Forcewave or Bone Harvest. The first is probably the best early on though.
If you desperately need AoE, I would suggest you to refund Markovian's Advantage, Reaping Strike, Ill Omen and Drain Essence, and rush the Necromancer's mastery bar until you reach Siphon Souls. Alternatively, get 1 point in Fighting Form and a few in Zolhan's Technique; they're not optimal against larger crowds, but should make things faster without changing your build drastically.

Reaping Strike is still mostly a waste though for now (even if you go the Cadence route), as is Ill Omen. I would advise you to refund them. Don't spread your skill points too much, and you'll be fine.
igor140 Oct 23, 2018 @ 8:48pm 
Thanks for the replies!

@Medea, I actually ran across that build before my original post here. I get the idea but I don't really like the idea of "changing characters" partway through the game. I like to have each character fit an ideal, and stick with it. I know that's super picky and mundane... but I like to get invested in my characters. Still, it's a good resource, and I learned a lot from it; thank you!

In general, having looked through the Devotions and the skills a bit more, it seems it would be fairly easy to stack passive Aether and Leech bonuses on regular attacks (or at least Cadence). Looking at things like the Ghoul and Rattosh, it seems quite possible to build some POWERFUL synergies so long as my weapon procs Aether damage as well...

... At which point Spectral Binding becomes AMAZING, if I understand all the variables correctly. For Fighting Spirit, when it says "all damage", does that mean ALL, or just melee/ physical damage? I'm used to playing Torchlight 2, Diablo 3, and Titan Quest, all of which have typos, exceptions, and weird rules.

Related to those, the main reason I put down D3, and will only ever go back to coop with someone, is that you get to a certain point in the game, and you are REQUIRED to play a certain way with certain abilities and certain equipment... and that is the single LEAST "role playing" thing they could ever possibly do. It pissed me off enough that I just walked away from the game.

Does this game get like that? I'll still give it a couple playthroughs either way, but I would like to know if I will eventually hit a wall like in D3.

Random questions:
1. Do you want to spread damage type around (fire, aether, piercing, etc), or should you focus on one or two like in Torchlight 2?
2. What is Internal Trauma damage?
3. Is Menhirr's Will worth it? I understand lvl 100 builds have 10k+ HP; does the HP regeneration from MW scale with level/ stats, or does it just suck all the time?
4. Given the proc rate scaling for WPS abilities, am I better off investing heavily in one or moderately in multiple? Statistically, it looks like it makes more sense to build them ONLY to the point that they hit 20% proc rate (5pts)... unless there are other ways to increase the proc rates, or damage scales non-linearly.
KG Oct 23, 2018 @ 10:36pm 
Originally posted by igor140:
Thanks for the replies!

@Medea, I actually ran across that build before my original post here. I get the idea but I don't really like the idea of "changing characters" partway through the game. I like to have each character fit an ideal, and stick with it. I know that's super picky and mundane... but I like to get invested in my characters. Still, it's a good resource, and I learned a lot from it; thank you!

In general, having looked through the Devotions and the skills a bit more, it seems it would be fairly easy to stack passive Aether and Leech bonuses on regular attacks (or at least Cadence). Looking at things like the Ghoul and Rattosh, it seems quite possible to build some POWERFUL synergies so long as my weapon procs Aether damage as well...

... At which point Spectral Binding becomes AMAZING, if I understand all the variables correctly. For Fighting Spirit, when it says "all damage", does that mean ALL, or just melee/ physical damage? I'm used to playing Torchlight 2, Diablo 3, and Titan Quest, all of which have typos, exceptions, and weird rules.

All damage is everything except pet-scaling pets (those need specific pet stats) and retaliation (which needs % retaliation damage). (Edit: not reflect either. Nothing can help reflect damage. Poor reflect.) Don't get too caught up on % damage bonuses though. They're a big deal when you're low level and don't have great gear but later on you have so much % damage stacked up that you're often better off chasing other stats to increase damage, like base damage, resist reduction, Offensive Ability, attack/cast speed, cooldown reduction, procs, or crit damage.

Originally posted by igor140:
Related to those, the main reason I put down D3, and will only ever go back to coop with someone, is that you get to a certain point in the game, and you are REQUIRED to play a certain way with certain abilities and certain equipment... and that is the single LEAST "role playing" thing they could ever possibly do. It pissed me off enough that I just walked away from the game.

Does this game get like that? I'll still give it a couple playthroughs either way, but I would like to know if I will eventually hit a wall like in D3.

Some things are more powerful or easier to find gear for/work better with poor gear (the price of mechanical diversity), but no. It can be hard to keep track of the endgame possibilities of just one combination of masteries.

Originally posted by igor140:
Random questions:
1. Do you want to spread damage type around (fire, aether, piercing, etc), or should you focus on one or two like in Torchlight 2?
2. What is Internal Trauma damage?
3. Is Menhirr's Will worth it? I understand lvl 100 builds have 10k+ HP; does the HP regeneration from MW scale with level/ stats, or does it just suck all the time?
4. Given the proc rate scaling for WPS abilities, am I better off investing heavily in one or moderately in multiple? Statistically, it looks like it makes more sense to build them ONLY to the point that they hit 20% proc rate (5pts)... unless there are other ways to increase the proc rates, or damage scales non-linearly.

1) You want to focus as much as possible. Few builds can support more than 2 damage types well and almost all builds would do more damage by converting everything to 1 damage type (though this usually isn't possible).

2) Physical damage DoT. Like how burning is fire DoT.

3) If your build can qualify, yes. Something like 4-6 total points is optimal for most builds, though, as you're probably doing something else wrong if you need to lean on Menhir's Will heavily as a Soldier with all those passive defenses. The % hp restored of course scales automatically, but the hp regen per second will be scaled by Increases Health Regeneration by X% stuff that gets fairly common later on. The base regen that Menhir's Will offers is pretty huge anyway - three or four times what you can get from most skills - so it doesn't take much to make a difference, especially vs DoT effects and the like.

4) Depends on the WPS, damage types, default weapon attack replacer you're using, etc. At lowish levels it can often be most beneficial to invest points until you get to 20 or 25% proc chance and then work on another WPS, though, so you're kind of right. If you're using a default weapon attack replacer than does more than 100% weapon damage (Savagery being the most extreme example), the WPS's damage is multiplied by the % weapon damage of the proc. So if Savagery deals 150% weapon damage, and your WPS activates and deals 200% weapon damage, your end result is 300% weapon damage plus a probable ton of flat or DoT damage... pretty nasty.

Cadence is a special case though. The actual "Cadence" attack (every 3rd) can't proc WPS so it doesn't interact with WPS all that well. The other two are regular attacks as if you still had basic attack on left click (but in that case you should have the buff from Deadly Momentum helping, so not all is lost).
Last edited by KG; Oct 23, 2018 @ 10:39pm
MedeaFleecestealer Oct 23, 2018 @ 11:41pm 
Originally posted by igor140:
Thanks for the replies!

@Medea, I actually ran across that build before my original post here. I get the idea but I don't really like the idea of "changing characters" partway through the game. I like to have each character fit an ideal, and stick with it. I know that's super picky and mundane... but I like to get invested in my characters. Still, it's a good resource, and I learned a lot from it; thank you!

In general, having looked through the Devotions and the skills a bit more, it seems it would be fairly easy to stack passive Aether and Leech bonuses on regular attacks (or at least Cadence). Looking at things like the Ghoul and Rattosh, it seems quite possible to build some POWERFUL synergies so long as my weapon procs Aether damage as well...

... At which point Spectral Binding becomes AMAZING, if I understand all the variables correctly. For Fighting Spirit, when it says "all damage", does that mean ALL, or just melee/ physical damage? I'm used to playing Torchlight 2, Diablo 3, and Titan Quest, all of which have typos, exceptions, and weird rules.

Related to those, the main reason I put down D3, and will only ever go back to coop with someone, is that you get to a certain point in the game, and you are REQUIRED to play a certain way with certain abilities and certain equipment... and that is the single LEAST "role playing" thing they could ever possibly do. It pissed me off enough that I just walked away from the game.

Does this game get like that? I'll still give it a couple playthroughs either way, but I would like to know if I will eventually hit a wall like in D3.

No, it doesn't. The devs always aim for more build diversity when they add things to the game and try to keep it as high as possible. You only need to look in the Build Compendium on the forum to see how many different ways people build the same class.

http://grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76322

And that doesn't even include other builds which are good, but don't meet the Compendium's criteria. There's this thread with just some of them.

http://grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61983&highlight=powerful+builds

I get what you're saying about switching skills around, I'm the same. I like to start as I mean to finish. But for levelling, sometimes it's easier (and safer for beginners) to start out using some skills and then respec later into the end game ones because they're just so good for early levelling. Devouring Swarm in the Shaman mastery for example. Max that out straight away and it'll take you a long way into the game just on its own, but it falls off when you get further into the game. It's usually better to reduce it down to one point only and just use it to proc a Devotion skill of some kind.
RodHull Oct 24, 2018 @ 2:57am 
Originally posted by igor140:
Does this game get like that? I'll still give it a couple playthroughs either way, but I would like to know if I will eventually hit a wall like in D3.

No it doesn't get like that, in fact they (Crate) regularly update and add items and sets that offer weird and suboptimal builds ways to be played and the skill combos, devotions, dual classes offer so much variety you could play for 1000s of hours and not even touch the sides of all the possible ways to play each class.

Now if you start looking at the upper echelons of Crucible which is a different beast entirely there is definitely less variety in the way that can be played but still nowhere near as limiting as something like D3.

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Date Posted: Oct 23, 2018 @ 1:20pm
Posts: 7