Building a dervish dunefiend

[Windor Kariel]

Hi guys

So, I'm building a dervish character. Got the dunefiend build and I absolutely don't know how to proceed further.

I created a grimtools build but I'm feeling like you guys could help me make better decisions.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1EEDwV

I think this one is already pretty decent but it most probably could get improved a lot.

I for example don't like this stun resistance being at only 59%, and 30% without buffs, and think my health pool is kinda low. OA/DA is decent I THINK, even more with the debuffs, but I also think it won't be any use against more endgame content.

I'd like to keep a minimum of active skills, hitting with EoR and Shadow Strike, healing with Pneumastic Burst and buffing with Ascension.

I'm interested in all you can say about it because I like this set and I'm trying to make it efficient :) It already hits damn strong with my noobish version (I won't show this one bc it's not relevant since this version is just the "survive till better stuff is ready" one) but I'm afraid about trying more challenging stuff without optimizing a bit.

Thanks for your help :)

[Windor Kariel]

Bump :)

[Safarel]

OA/DA is terrible, esp DA
Skill distribution and devotion chioce are sub-optimal
Items that are used in build also not fit a build
Here is a solid build with dunefiend, you could compared to yours https://www.grimtools.com/calc/L2JOz9DV

[Windor Kariel]

Originally posted by Safarel:

OA/DA is terrible, esp DA
Skill distribution and devotion chioce are sub-optimal
Items that are used in build also not fit a build
Here is a solid build with dunefiend, you could compared to yours https://www.grimtools.com/calc/L2JOz9DV

So, with Nightblade, you'd also forget about piercing and go vitality instead ?

I checked GT and found out that piercing + acid/poison items are pretty rare so I guess my choice wasn't great

Also I'd like to know why you're only putting one point in each of Righteous Fervor's skill/sub-skills, are you using it ? If I ran it with EoR I'd use it only for the buffs but I'd probably put more points on its 1st subskill to make the buff more potent.

I'll try to make an updated version; I find many things interesting in your build even if I don't understand everything ! Seems you're actually spending many devotion and skill points in retaliation too.

[andrew.thiele]

Not my build but I think I can answer your questions:

1. So, with Nightblade, you'd also forget about piercing and go vitality instead ?

- Considering it's a Sentinel and not a Dervish he gains a bit from boosting the Vitality damage his skills and devotions do because of the Curse of Frailty debuff. The CoF + Celestial Presence definitely makes any Vitality damage worth boosting. CoF doesn't have pierce RR so clearly a Dervish wouldn't gain as much from having a significant amount of Vitality damage. Even still, the build linked does a majority of Acid damage.

2. Also I'd like to know why you're only putting one point in each of Righteous Fervor's skill/sub-skills, are you using it ? If I ran it with EoR I'd use it only for the buffs but I'd probably put more points on its 1st subskill to make the buff more potent.

- I've seen this in many builds. It's not an actual skill to use other than for one attack on any meaningful enemy to get the Consecration boost. In the build he linked, it has only 195% attack speed but hits the 200% cap with Consecration, not to mention the other bonuses you receive. You could certainly put those 4 points elsewhere, but in that build I can't see a better place for them.


3. Seems you're actually spending many devotion and skill points in retaliation too.

- I'll break down the devotions:

Quill - some resists and DA but mainly helps to get Murmur, and unlocks Wolverine.

Wolverine - just for the DA.

Murmur - resist reduction mostly.

Ghoul - ADCtH and life circuit breaker.

Fiend - likely only taken for Flame Torrent because of how fast it proc's and the 50% Elemental to Acid damage conversion of the belt.

Sailor's Guide, Eel, Hound, and Solemn Watcher - to unlock bigger devotions and the huge DA boost, armour, Pierce resist, Freeze and Slow.

Dying God - huge OA boost.

Revenant - ADCtH, attack speed, life, but mostly those improved Skeletons for their flat resist reduction. He also boosts their vitality damage a bit.

Aeon's Hourglass - too many defensive properties to list and I imagine the proc is to get Ascension back sooner.

Any retaliation damage he receives is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

At least this is what I see from the build. Hope it helps.

[Windor Kariel]

Originally posted by andrew.thiele:

Not my build but I think I can answer your questions:

1. So, with Nightblade, you'd also forget about piercing and go vitality instead ?

- Considering it's a Sentinel and not a Dervish he gains a bit from boosting the Vitality damage his skills and devotions do because of the Curse of Frailty debuff. The CoF + Celestial Presence definitely makes any Vitality damage worth boosting. CoF doesn't have pierce RR so clearly a Dervish wouldn't gain as much from having a significant amount of Vitality damage. Even still, the build linked does a majority of Acid damage.

2. Also I'd like to know why you're only putting one point in each of Righteous Fervor's skill/sub-skills, are you using it ? If I ran it with EoR I'd use it only for the buffs but I'd probably put more points on its 1st subskill to make the buff more potent.

- I've seen this in many builds. It's not an actual skill to use other than for one attack on any meaningful enemy to get the Consecration boost. In the build he linked, it has only 195% attack speed but hits the 200% cap with Consecration, not to mention the other bonuses you receive. You could certainly put those 4 points elsewhere, but in that build I can't see a better place for them.


3. Seems you're actually spending many devotion and skill points in retaliation too.

- I'll break down the devotions:

Quill - some resists and DA but mainly helps to get Murmur, and unlocks Wolverine.

Wolverine - just for the DA.

Murmur - resist reduction mostly.

Ghoul - ADCtH and life circuit breaker.

Fiend - likely only taken for Flame Torrent because of how fast it proc's and the 50% Elemental to Acid damage conversion of the belt.

Sailor's Guide, Eel, Hound, and Solemn Watcher - to unlock bigger devotions and the huge DA boost, armour, Pierce resist, Freeze and Slow.

Dying God - huge OA boost.

Revenant - ADCtH, attack speed, life, but mostly those improved Skeletons for their flat resist reduction. He also boosts their vitality damage a bit.

Aeon's Hourglass - too many defensive properties to list and I imagine the proc is to get Ascension back sooner.

Any retaliation damage he receives is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

At least this is what I see from the build. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the explanations !

I guess vitality or piercing does not matter so much for me since I'm going to make almost only acid/poison damages via EoR anyway.

However, I'm pretty sad about one thing : I'm trying, but I can't reach 3k offensive ability with Nightblade without losing too much. Thing is, Safarel's build uses Blood of Dreeg, which gives him an enormous OA buff; I can get a great DA tho, but OA seems really hard to get at the same level. If you've got some ideas, I'm a taker; I don't know items and devotions enough to make very optimized things and I would definitely love this OA to be at least at 3k.

[Windor Kariel]

Ok here is an updated version : https://www.grimtools.com/calc/62aEyPx2

I actually just copied most of your build, and then made a few changes which I think might make it better for a Dervish, I'd like you to tell me what you think about it ;)

Also I'm not 100% sure about all my skill choices. I decided not to go with Rebuke and Retribution because I'm not counting on retaliation damages and will only use Righteous Fervor to buff DA and armor (That's also why I leveled up Consecration).

The HP pool seems pretty decent and the heals are already dope so I only put one point in Haven;

I feel like Dual Blades from Nightblade is much needed for physical resist too. I removed points in Veil of Shadow to get more skill points for Oathkeeper skills that felt too important to skip ( Presence of Virtue, Consecration ) which is my principal concern. Idk if this choice is great.

I also removed many points from Shadow Strike and its modifier, which I also wonder if it's a good choice because of it being greatly improved by the set, making it interesting as a burst skill.

I needed more OA so I changed Raddagan's mantle to Dreeg's mantle, giving more OA and more HP, less armor (but I still have a decent amount) but also no stun resistance but I still get 80% of those with Ascencion.

I also needed to put one extra point in Ultos to get some OA, and took the Hawk constellation; but I also didn't put points in wolverine or Fiend; because since Nightblade's equivalent of blood of dreeg gives DA, I needed more OA and less DA. I replaced Wolverine with Hawk and Fiend with Rat (For the indirect OA, and acid/poison damages. I guess I'm losing some damages but I'm also gaining OA in the process) which makes me get 2 points to get 50 OA on Ultos constellation.


Also thanks again for your help, this build looks pretty dope.

[andrew.thiele]

Never played the set myself, but I'd suggest making just these slight changes:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXWmY8Z

Removed 1 point from Safeguard ('This is a shield bonus', as it says) and placed in Rebuke as some of that physical damage gets added to Eye of Reckoning and the defensive stats are nice enough.

I shifted around other skills to cap Ascension for the likely needed Damage Absorption as well as to boost Veil of Shadow's effectiveness.

Disclaimers:
I should point out that the green ring in the build Safarel linked, and that you've included here, is a 'double rare' (meaning a rare prefix and suffix) so it's going to be incredible challenging (if not impossible) to find that specific version yourself.

Also, that amulet has 7 prefixes so crafting one with the "Plague of Rot" prefix may take a few tries. The same goes for the 3% OA on the Relic but I assume you know about that one.

Lastly, without the Bloody Pox spell to spread and summon tonnes of the Skeletons I imagine that'll be bound to EoR instead. I would have put Plague of Rot there but its 6 second cooldown would make it much less effective. The other devotions I just tied to their most likely suitor, but you can change as you see fit.

The build overall seems decent enough, but hard to say if I'd make further changes without testing myself. I did mess around with the devotions a bit but couldn't settle on one I liked more so I gave up on improving that part.

[Valkez]

Personally, I find the Deathstalker relic to be more useful, I like its stats better over Malediction.

Mark of the Forbidden has some sweet stats and a nice fumble proc that will work together with EoR, unlike the Bear King. The downside is, you lose that attack speed and hp which are sweet.

Time Dilation seems to be a bit unnecessary, given how your only cooldowns are Shadow Strike and Ascension, both of which are short enough.

Also, the skeletons are still kind of "meh". You get more reliable RR from the Scales and Manticore, both of which will deal acid damage for the most part, and the Scales would also heal you while passively debuffing your enemies and restoring your energy.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4Y3gB2

This would be my personal take, of course, so take it critically. Also, I suppose I don't have to mention that you can get better affixes on that ring, so best of luck on that.

[Windor Kariel]

Originally posted by Valkez:

Personally, I find the Deathstalker relic to be more useful, I like its stats better over Malediction.

Mark of the Forbidden has some sweet stats and a nice fumble proc that will work together with EoR, unlike the Bear King. The downside is, you lose that attack speed and hp which are sweet.

Time Dilation seems to be a bit unnecessary, given how your only cooldowns are Shadow Strike and Ascension, both of which are short enough.

Also, the skeletons are still kind of "meh". You get more reliable RR from the Scales and Manticore, both of which will deal acid damage for the most part, and the Scales would also heal you while passively debuffing your enemies and restoring your energy.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4Y3gB2

This would be my personal take, of course, so take it critically. Also, I suppose I don't have to mention that you can get better affixes on that ring, so best of luck on that.

I like many of your changes. The new HP and armor values look really great as well as the energy boost. However I'm wondering; do you think it is worth the lost of 300 OA ? I feel like it's a great lost but it comes with a great gain too so I'm having troubles finding out what's best :/

Originally posted by andrew.thiele:

Never played the set myself, but I'd suggest making just these slight changes:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXWmY8Z

Removed 1 point from Safeguard ('This is a shield bonus', as it says) and placed in Rebuke as some of that physical damage gets added to Eye of Reckoning and the defensive stats are nice enough.

I shifted around other skills to cap Ascension for the likely needed Damage Absorption as well as to boost Veil of Shadow's effectiveness.

Disclaimers:
I should point out that the green ring in the build Safarel linked, and that you've included here, is a 'double rare' (meaning a rare prefix and suffix) so it's going to be incredible challenging (if not impossible) to find that specific version yourself.

Also, that amulet has 7 prefixes so crafting one with the "Plague of Rot" prefix may take a few tries. The same goes for the 3% OA on the Relic but I assume you know about that one.

Lastly, without the Bloody Pox spell to spread and summon tonnes of the Skeletons I imagine that'll be bound to EoR instead. I would have put Plague of Rot there but its 6 second cooldown would make it much less effective. The other devotions I just tied to their most likely suitor, but you can change as you see fit.

The build overall seems decent enough, but hard to say if I'd make further changes without testing myself. I did mess around with the devotions a bit but couldn't settle on one I liked more so I gave up on improving that part.

omg why did this point in safeguard survive my skill checks :(

Ok so what you did with the skills answers some questions I had too. I was wondering if I needed to cap Pneumastic burst since the important part is the modifier, and if I shouldn't put more points into Veil of Shadow.


Thanks for the help everyone, I can't choose any post as the answer since all those were as helpful. I'm going to tweak many things, I think I now have the keys to make a great build with all your advices.

I may not use Viloth's ring tho, as you said it's extremely rare. I'm willing to spend a lot of time crafting to get the right things, but farming for months just to get the perfect ring isn't my thing. I'm probably going to get another, focusing on energy with it's stats. It's not going to be as optimized but it's going to work well anyway I think.

[Valkez]

Originally posted by Windor Kariel:

I'm wondering; do you think it is worth the lost of 300 OA ? I feel like it's a great lost but it comes with a great gain too so I'm having troubles finding out what's best :/

Most of the OA my "version" has lost comes from the points I have removed from Clarity of Purpose and cunning.
Personally, I have never liked to build my offense on cooldowns; Ascension is an amazing defensive cooldown, but I see its OA bonus more like a nice addition. My logic being that you would prefere to pop it in a moment where you're taking more damage than you can heal, rather than use it to dish out more dps in a safe situation.
As for cunning, I lowered it to the amount you need to equip the blades. You deal mostly acid damage anyway, so I would rather keep those points into physique.

If you want more OA, you can always remove the lone point from Dryad and either Manticore or Scales, and get the Eagle. You will lose resistance though, and I think the damage increase from Manticore/Scales compensates well enough the OA you would get from Eagle, especially considering that you have only +13% crit damage bonus.

[Windor Kariel]

I actually removed Lizard to get the Hawk. I felt Manticore, Dryad and Scales were best untouched.

With this change I've got a nice mix between the stats I had in my previous attempt and your version which has more armor and health; It also gives more energy and energy regen which is cool since I'm probably gonna have to use another ring instead of Viloth's.

[Valkez]

Originally posted by Windor Kariel:

I actually removed Lizard to get the Hawk. I felt Manticore, Dryad and Scales were best untouched.

I feel silly now, I missed the surplus blue stars
Yeah, Lizard for Eagle is totally a good exchange.